Question about nootropics and supplements

[BillR]

Hey I'm new to this but I have been a Nootropics geek for past few years. You can read more about my symptoms and story below.

Starting from yesterday I stopped taking all Nootropics including caffeine (I am having nasty caffeine withdrawals as I'm writing this) until seeing how my baseline looks like.

In the meantime, I wanna hear from your experience if any of the following nootropic compounds can help/worsen the symptoms?

• NA Semax Amidate
• Piracetam
• Aniracetam
• Fasoracetam
• Oxiracetam
• Phenylpiracetam
• NSI-189
• BPC-157
• Forskolin
• Alpha GPC
• Uridine MPS/Triacetyluridine
• Vinpocetine
• Bromantane
• Agmatine Sulfate
• Sulbutiamine
• ALCAR
• NAC
• L-Theanine
• Lion's Mane Mushroom
• Ashwagandha
• CBD Oil
• Bacopa
• Rhodiola
• Ginkgo 
• Phosphatedyl-Serine
• Resveratol
• Pterostilbene

Thank you!

Edited October 27, 2020 by BillR

[Jay1]

I have tried most of the list and sadly nothing has worked for me, but on the plus side, i didn't get any negative effects either. Part of me thinks it's all a placebo, but that might just be me being jealous!

 

Welcome to the forum!

[SomebodySomewhere]

I can't speak in regards to HPPD symptoms since I have those under control, but the mechanism of action of NAC could be of benefit. I'm currently taking it, not for HPPD-related reasons, but because I'm a recovering alcoholic and want to undo some of that damage, and because I want to go off of my Klonopin at some point, and it sounds like NAC could help there too.

In terms of Piracetam, I took that before I had HPPD, for several months, and I honestly can't report any of the benefits they claim it has.

[SomebodySomewhere]

Update: As of yesterday I have been taking L-Theanine. I must say, unlike most herbal supplements, I'm actually noticing a pretty decent calming effect. It's too early to know for sure, but if it continues to work this well after a month of use, I think it will be time to begin slowly tapering off of my Klonopin. I've also been using California Poppy extract, which I'm also finding helpful.

[Onemorestep]

Hi Bill! A lot, in fact all of the ones I have taken, have come with their ups and downs for me. I feel like it is helpful for now to write briefly as it would take more time than I have at the moment to go into depth on why I personally believe any item is "good" or "bad". So heres that and some more--

 

NNE: No Noticeable Effect

• NA Semax Amidate: NA
• Piracetam: BAD BAD. There is a very small chance this stuff will melt your brain. Of course my hubris didn't allow me the foresight to understand that could happen to me (the irony being AGAIN duh)... If it helps you it can be a wonder drug. If it melts your brain well.... suicide becomes a very real and probable option in a way I never understood during even the worst of my hppd from LSD. 
• Aniracetam: BAD BAD
• Fasoracetam: NA
• Oxiracetam: BAD BAD
• Phenylpiracetam: BAD BAD
• NSI-189: GREAT
• BPC-157: GREAT, currently I only know of 4 people with hppd who have tried this--Myself and three others. Three had extrememly positive reactions and one had an extremely negative reaction that improved over time. This must be carefully sourced ESPECIALLY if injected. 
• Forskolin: NA, good for increasing cyclic AMP.
• Alpha GPC: NNE
• Uridine MPS/Triacetyluridine: GOOD, i must watch mood for excess choline symptoms
• Vinpocetine: NA
• Bromantane: NA
• Agmatine Sulfate: GOOD, may enhance a lot of other drugs
• Sulbutiamine: GOOD, bad for people with severe methylation issues
• ALCAR: GOOD, bad for people with severe methylation issues
• NAC: GOOD, bad for people with severe methylation issues
• L-Theanine: YMMV
• Lion's Mane Mushroom: GOOD (If used chronically causes sever depression for me. Stops upon taking it after 1-2 days)
• Ashwagandha: GOOD
• CBD Oil: GOOD
• Bacopa: GOOD
• Rhodiola: NNE
• Ginkgo: GOOD
• Phosphatedyl-Serine: NNE
• Resveratol: NNE 
• Pterostilbene: NA

 

 

I also currently use many of these  

• Selegiline

• High dose EPA/DHA

• 

• Pramipexole (can cause DAWS in roughly 50% of users)

• CBG (cannabinoid, use with caution preferably well into recovery)

• CBN (cannabinoid, use with caution preferably well into recovery)

• Delta-8-THC (cannabinoid, use with caution preferably well into recovery. If tolerated only use smallest dose possible with break periods)

• Memantine

• Naltrexone

• Selank

• Kava (source this well and get your liver enzyme levels checked regularly)

•Intranasal Insulin (highly recommend)

• Frequent Aerobic Exercise 

• I purify all my air with hepa or hyperhepa air filters

• I keep my carbon dioxide levels in good range where I sleep. 

• I keep my spine straight including neck (its amazing what proper posture will do for mood and anxiety)

• I treat my genetic mutations that result in negative physical and mood effects as to encourage a more stable system in which healing can occur. 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Onemorestep

[SomebodySomewhere]

6 hours ago, Onemorestep said:

this stuff will melt your brain

Um, what?

Curious what you're talking about.

Same with "bad for people with severe methylation issues ", what do you mean (in regards to NAC)?

You also mention genetic mutations, do you have other disorders besides HPPD?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but intranasal insulin? Why are you recommending that? Same with Kava: Kava can cause bad liver damage unless prepared a certain way.

[Onemorestep]

On 11/19/2020 at 9:12 AM, SomebodySomewhere said:

Um, what?

Curious what you're talking about.

Same with "bad for people with severe methylation issues ", what do you mean (in regards to NAC)?

You also mention genetic mutations, do you have other disorders besides HPPD?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but intranasal insulin? Why are you recommending that? Same with Kava: Kava can cause bad liver damage unless prepared a certain way.

 

NAC may bind to Methyl-b12 rendering it useless. Its pretty complicated but interesting stuff. If you have problems with creating methylb12 from regular b12, NAC may make that issue worse. It can for me if I'm not careful. This is from a guy I followed in treating my own genetic issues: 

Fred:

"Now that might depend on how one defines “B12 deficiency”. NAC is a precursor to glutathione. It appears by pragmatic trial that if NAC is the limiting factor in making more glutathione, it can temporarily cause temporarily more glutathione. A popular belief in “detox” symptoms; “NAC detox” symptoms and/or “glutathione detox” symptoms, which are the same, are a percentage of people that respond that way. This time of the trial was 10–11 years before my micronutrient lithium trial. It was at the time of recovering from the glutathione damage that I developed damage from copper deficiency and could no longer have the 5 minute mecbl startup., I still had some nerve healing startup from 10mg injection, but not like before.

The N=10 glutathione trial we all decided to try to find the clearly missing something. All 10 were at least a year into intense Active B12 healing. The reasons we were each deficient all were varied, from vegan to genetic polymorphisms. We had all been pursuing something that would heal us for years or mostly decades. One person said she was one of the Incline Village CSF folks. All 10 had “return of symptoms” that are popularly called “glutathione detox” that had been previously present when they started MeCbl, AdoCbl, L-methylfolate and L-carnitine, 1 or more years before.

I will describe my experience. I had previously done a serious of injections and the colorimetry of urine at concentration in urine from 1 to 100 mg, and another with 3 injections per day up to 60mg for each of 3 injections, 180 mg/day. Another man did a series of IV infusions to 500 mg of MeCbl. His statement was that it gave him “lurid” urine for several days. In our experiences there is a maximum kidney excretion rate somewhere between 5 to 10 mg/hour or perhaps more.

I was stunned with the first dose of glutathione and a 10mg injection. In an hour the B12 was making my urine “lurid”, like 60 mg subcutaneous injection of MeCbl. Instead of making an orange shade, it was intense red. A 2011 review of CBL-C disease it was stated that a characteristic symptom was that glutathione caused “catastrophic b12 deficiency.

As the ongoing glutathione kept the B12 pouring out it turned out that active b12s disappeared from somewhere to be excreted and about 3 weeks in I started having a demyelination damage. By 6 weeks all 10 were having demyelination and everybody stopped. I had stopped glutathione precursors as soon as I recognized demyelination and other methyltrap symptoms and told the other 9 all about it. They all had the symptoms to some degree up to demyelination.

So more glutathione can be made by starting various singular precursor or precursors and it may be the quantity being made beyond what can be used by the body in normaL ways.

Methyltrap occurs when either no mecbl or cob[ii] i s in a place for starting the cell and there is cell making failure with l-methylfolate deficiency symptoms as it is flushed from the cell if there is no active B12 at the moment needed. So for the l-methylfolate lacking symptoms is usually caused by a bottleneck caused by a bottleneck in MeCbl or COB[II] lack becasue that all becomes glutathionylcobalamin and that is not reactive."

---

 

No you're not being a jerk. A lot of these things I take could be considered highly risky and dangerous. I encourage everyone to always do thorough research on a drug before ingesting it. Pramipexole can lead to daws, Kava can lead to liver damage i guess if you really fuck up your sourcing... I get my liver tested frequently enough and there has been no change since kava use... However I should note that early on in my hppd, within the first year that is, kava would cause an increase in anxiety if consumed for more than three days in a row. I did not consume it again until many years later and it was very beneficial to my mental health and, I suspect but cannot prove, brain healing. Kavalactones are fascinating chemicals and can provide a large array of benefits to the brain. It has comparable effects on glutamate receptors as memantine, which really says something to the potency of it as a medication.

 

Trust me if the alternative wasn't lay down and die I wouldn't have trialed any of these things. Severe HPPD can certainly push a person to try things they never would...

 

Do I have other genetic disorders? I guess that depends on what you consider a disorder. I have low glutamate decarboxylase activity (decreased gaba production), increased enzyme activity metabolizing my endogenous cannabinoids, and some pretty high tyrosine hydroxylase activity (dopamine production). These aren't considered disorders in of themselves... but they can certainly lead to negative feeling. low GAD activity can lead to PTSD, sleep disorders, and other issues. It also will make one think faster as ones brain would lean towards glutamate dominance. ...Those are just two off the top of my head. Some people have too much of these enzymes and that comes with its own array of pros and cons. What I would love to know is if there is a genetic component to HPPD and if so is it one gene? or many? I suspect this is a spectrum disorder that includes input from many genetic and environmental factors. But what do i know hehe 

 

Intranasal insulin has a wide array of positive brain effects and relatively good safety profile with long term use AFAIK. I haven't read up on it since I started taking it but there was a long term study called the "sniff study" or something in which it was used for over a year daily: https://www.lostfalco.com/intranasal-insulin/

 

oh and as for the piracetam thing-- there is some evidence for oxidative stress to the hypothalamus. I lost all sex drive, hunger, thirst, and ability to have normal sleep for quite some time after usage. Negative reactions to racetams such as piracetam seem to be exeedingly rare. Back when I was burned, I could only find about 100 reports of it and millions and millions of people take it. But let me tell you I have never experienced such pure terror for so long.. years. 

 

Anyhoos HPPD is so individualized in its symptoms and reactions to medications. Theres a lot of trial and error that goes on. And a lot of your responses can change over time. I'm simply suggesting things that have worked for me in the hopes maybe they will help someone else. They also may hurt someone. But if we don't suggest that which has helped what are we doing here?

Edited December 21, 2020 by Onemorestep

[irvincopa]

Nootropics have helped me a lot in my life. I've been lucky not to get any noticeable and severe side effects, which I'm very happy about. When I took my final exams in college, I was very stressed about it. That's when a friend first advised me to take nootropics. I tried it, and within a month, I was able to prepare perfectly for all the subjects. Then I realized that I would be using them a lot. But after that time, I only used them a couple of times. The longest was when I went to the gym. I've never had a problem with that in my life. Maybe it's because I use very pure and high-quality products. I get them here https://paradigmpeptides.com/product-category/nootropics/. Some drugs help me get rid of caffeine addiction. But it takes at least a year to cure it. So good luck.

Edited May 19, 2022 by irvincopa