In the end, i believe Hppd is Visual Snow Syndrome.

[olivier24445]

In the end, i believe Hppd is Visual Snow Syndrome.

VSS can be triggered by many unknown factors, antibiotics, infections, and so on...it's still pretty unclear.

I believe "drugs" is one of the triggers amongst others : MDMA, LSD, Magic Mushrooms, Ketamine, and so on...

Except in the case of hallucinogens, VSS stacks over this drug use background.

 and confuse us even more in the diagnostic, as it takes a few months to totally evacuate side effects of hallucinogens and what i will call over all , unhealthy lifestyle .

The time to recover, and get back on your feet ( doing sport, quitting all drugs, getting good food habits, ....) , you will be only left with a full blow "ordinary" and characteristic visual snow syndrome, that will be feeding the anxiety loop already introduced by the drug experience, specially in case bad trip occured

When you contract VSS by other factors,  without having used any strong psychoactive, the path stays hard, but definitely less questionning and odd.

And the process to acceptance is faster and less anxious.

To me , it's so obvious :  The problem with the HPPD community, is that many of us will also confuse and mix/add light or heavy mental pathologies to the VSS, because, we (drug experiencers) are in some way more sensitive and outofthebox in the first place.

That's what's make it so hard to define and confusing because we have more variety and cases reported that not always match the proper symptoms reports

More than ever, we should look closer to the VSS research, and team up, as the way we contract it, should also lead them to more find more clues.

For reference : https://www.visualsnowinitiative.org/diagnostic-criteria/

Edited February 14, 2020 by olivier24445

[TryingToHelp]

Or possibly it is a heightened awareness of visual snow brought about by fear and anxiety caused by the drug taking history.

All people have visual snow, it is a natural phenomenon inherent in the physical structure of the eye. 

The human brain can be trained to notice aspects of vision more, e.g. a trained soldier spotting snipers. 

Hence I think it is likely that a hppd sufferers brain is in some way trained more than that of a non sufferer. It subconsciously picks up the visual snow more than a non sufferer and gives it an unwanted high place in the consciousness of the sufferer.

The solution lies in ignoring or reversing that training.... hard to do, try eg getting a war veteran to not jump to alert when they hear a firework or something. 

[olivier24445]

17 minutes ago, TryingToHelp said:

Or possibly it is a heightened awareness of visual snow brought about by fear and anxiety caused by the drug taking history.

All people have visual snow, it is a natural phenomenon inherent in the physical structure of the eye. 

The human brain can be trained to notice aspects of vision more, e.g. a trained soldier spotting snipers. 

Hence I think it is likely that a hppd sufferers brain is in some way trained more than that of a non sufferer. It subconsciously picks up the visual snow more than a non sufferer and gives it an unwanted high place in the consciousness of the sufferer.

The solution lies in ignoring or reversing that training.... hard to do, try eg getting a war veteran to not jump to alert when they hear a firework or something. 

There is little snow and floaters that many people have at some point in life, and there is Visual Snow Syndrome : 

It's definitly not a little inconvenience you can just learn to ignore and practice yoga over it : 

https://www.visualsnowinitiative.org/diagnostic-criteria/

It's a physiological condition due to hyperactive visual cortices

Edited February 14, 2020 by olivier24445

[Jay1]

If it is a drug induced form of VSS... Then all I can say is a feel sorry as hell for those that get it without drug use.

I feel like i'm on acid (without any good feelings)... but at least I know what being on acid feels like, so have some understanding of how to keep myself from losing it.

Personally though, I really find it hard to believe that anyone could feel  and think like I do without taking drugs. 

[olivier24445]

1 hour ago, Jay1 said:

If it is a drug induced form of VSS... Then all I can say is a feel sorry as hell for those that get it without drug use.

I feel like i'm on acid (without any good feelings)... but at least I know what being on acid feels like, so have some understanding of how to keep myself from losing it.

Personally though, I really find it hard to believe that anyone could feel  and think like I do without taking drugs. 

As i was saying, for us,  stacks all the noise of the trip memories... and the anxiety loop.

Once you get rid of this loop, and realize the condition may actually have not much to do with the substance you took (could have been anything else), you be left with a clear VSS pattern

The same "persisting hallucinations",  are experienced by anyone who has Visual Snow Syndrome. Shall we keep calling them "hallucinations", by the way ?

Edited February 14, 2020 by olivier24445

[Jay1]

I'm not convinced.... 

I never had a bad trip, I haven't tripped for 25 years and have a whole raft of coping mechanisms... Yet I feel the same mental illness as day 1 (which 100% most definitely caused my visuals issues).

[olivier24445]

37 minutes ago, Jay1 said:

I'm not convinced.... 

I never had a bad trip, I haven't tripped for 25 years and have a whole raft of coping mechanisms... Yet I feel the same mental illness as day 1 (which 100% most definitely caused my visuals issues).

I can feel your pain,  in fact, I believe also the condition is not related to a bad trip, but when you had one, it won't help for sure getting rid of the anxiety.

The trip, good or bad,  is only the trigger in the brain, same as antibiotics , flue shots do for some other people... It's not clear yet what's the mechanism that induce VSS.

You must still find your thing to reduce your anxiety, to reach the ground level of our pathology :

The list is well known already : relaxation, breathing, eating healthy, sport, work, psychotherapy, yoga,  anything that will once for all clear up the trauma of getting hit by such a ...curse, and the guilt that comes with drug use that turned "dramatic" for your sanity. I guess overcoming that feeling, is why some people get better once they do psychedelics again. (bad idea)

Then, you will be at the same level as anyone else struck by VSS.

Edited February 14, 2020 by olivier24445

[Jay1]

In the right circumstances, i can get my anxiety down to zero (at home, watching mindless tv, for example)... My visuals are still 100% though and my trippy thought process remains the same.

When someone with "just" VSS can describe that trippy thought process, I will begin to think it is all connected,...until then, I think hppd is somewhat different.

[Fawkinchit]

On 2/14/2020 at 6:22 AM, TryingToHelp said:

Or possibly it is a heightened awareness of visual snow brought about by fear and anxiety caused by the drug taking history.

All people have visual snow, it is a natural phenomenon inherent in the physical structure of the eye. 

The human brain can be trained to notice aspects of vision more, e.g. a trained soldier spotting snipers. 

Hence I think it is likely that a hppd sufferers brain is in some way trained more than that of a non sufferer. It subconsciously picks up the visual snow more than a non sufferer and gives it an unwanted high place in the consciousness of the sufferer.

The solution lies in ignoring or reversing that training.... hard to do, try eg getting a war veteran to not jump to alert when they hear a firework or something. 

[Fawkinchit]

Oliver i think you make a good point, can you please post case studies of people getting visual snow from the list of medications you listed?

[Lucas]

About "detraining" the brain to notice visual snow, here's a report from a guy who claimed he cured his disturbances by watching anti visual snow video for hours on end. (the video does kind of "freeze" visual snow for a few seconds if you watch it for some minutes, you can try it it's fun).

(PIN THIS POST) How I CURED my Palinopsia & Visual Snow - Original Visual-Snow or Static forum

I believe this guy because it is consistent with this article

Cortical stimulation for treatment of neurological disorders of hyperexcitability: a role of homeostatic plasticity Chai Z, Ma C, Jin X - Neural Regen Res

Basically by (counterintuitively I agree) hyperstimulating an hyperactive brain, homeostasis does its thing and the brain reduce the baseline level of excitation of the neurons.

At least in my case it makes sense, I got HPPD from an anticholinergic (basically depriving the brain of stimulation for roughly 3 days) so maybe in some people where homeostasis happen faster than other that's why I am left with an hyperactive brain and ultimately HPPD.

It might be useful to remember here that classic serotoninergic psychedelics are in fact reducing brain activity.

https://healthland.time.com/2012/01/24/magic-mushrooms-expand-the-mind-by-dampening-brain-activity/

 

This may seem a bit far-out or whatever but do watch the video, read the post of the guy and then the article and tell me what you think about this.

I might be making a better and more fleshed out stand alone post about this (the role of homeostasis in our condition) tonight.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Lucas

[Fawkinchit]

3 hours ago, Lucas said:

About "detraining" the brain to notice visual snow, here's a report from a guy who claimed he cured his disturbances by watching anti visual snow video for hours on end. (the video does kind of "freeze" visual snow for a few seconds if you watch it for some minutes, you can try it it's fun).

(PIN THIS POST) How I CURED my Palinopsia & Visual Snow - Original Visual-Snow or Static forum

I believe this guy because it is consistent with this article

Cortical stimulation for treatment of neurological disorders of hyperexcitability: a role of homeostatic plasticity Chai Z, Ma C, Jin X - Neural Regen Res

Basically by (counterintuitively I agree) hyperstimulating an hyperactive brain, homeostasis does its thing and the brain reduce the baseline level of excitation of the neurons.

At least in my case it makes sense, I got HPPD from an anticholinergic (basically depriving the brain of stimulation for roughly 3 days) so maybe in some people where homeostasis happen faster than other that's why I am left with an hyperactive brain and ultimately HPPD.

It might be useful to remember here that classic serotoninergic psychedelics are in fact reducing brain activity.

https://healthland.time.com/2012/01/24/magic-mushrooms-expand-the-mind-by-dampening-brain-activity/

 

This may seem a bit far-out or whatever but do watch the video, read the post of the guy and then the article and tell me what you think about this.

I might be making a better and more fleshed out stand alone post about this (the role of homeostasis in our condition) tonight.

There doesn’t appear to be any methods of watching youtube videos used for the various listed forms of cortical stimulation mentioned in the study.

the study however is interesting.

Edited February 16, 2020 by dasitmane

[Lucas]

Let me explain then, as the brain is trying to filter out the visual noise of the video it compensate and then the snow disappear for a few seconds/minutes depending on how long you have been watching. (Did you try btw ?).

The idea would be that by forcing the brain to compensate for the stimuli of the video often enough for long enough plastic changes would happen and the compensation made would be in part permanent.

[TryingToHelp]

@dasitmane

Please will you stop trolling my posts and calling me e.g. an imbecile for not recognising the 'utter brilliance' of your amateur scientific investigations. I have read all of your 'evidence' and frankly it, along with your responses to my posts, bears the hallmarks of an uneducated obsessive madman. 

[olivier24445]

According to recent researchs, Visual Snow is mostly due to hyper activity in the visual cortex. It's not something you can  just train not to see watching a video on youtube.

It's not a psychosommatic phenomenon either.

It's just there in the cortex, and it's possible to diagnose it.

I had actually an abdnormal EEG back in the days, and it looks like a form of epilepsy over excitabilty, when you get the right stimuli (patterns, chessboards, flashing lights, etc...)

Any one else tried to have an EEG with similar results ? 

You must do an EEG and be tested on the visual sight with patterns, grids, strobe lights, anything that bothers us.

I would be interested to know if anyone else has been tested this way ? 

Edited February 16, 2020 by olivier24445

[Lucas]

@olivier24445

I'm talking about plastic changes in the brain, please do read the article I linked.

I need to make a full post where I explain things clearly but my mind is foggy tonight, I will tag you if you want, please keep an open mind.

Plus I would day try the video it will at least prove to you that your brain is indeed constantly trying to maintain homeostasis, my theory being that our brains consider "the HPPD state" the normal state and do what it can to maintain it.

I read an essay about chronic pain that explain this concep pretty well, then again I need to make a proper post.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Lucas

[TryingToHelp]

Anxiety and fear will increase the activity of the visual cortex. The brain as part of its flight or flight response sharpens up and focuses on stimuli it perceives as dangerous.

Such as background visual noise such as visual snow that reminds someone of their past drug use.

The fact that hppd is almost always accompanied by classic anxiety symptoms such as depersonalisarion and derealisation strongly suggest that it is an anxiety related disorder. 

@dasitmane, this is a simple and logical idea, much more plausible than some of your 'thoeries'.

E.g. fungus infection, the liver, heating of the brain and all the other rubbish you have wasted your time with.

So many studies around physiological causes and drug treatments have contradicting outcome. 

The only consistent and reliable treatment is to take care of anxiety and general physical and mental health. Sort that out and the reduction or disappearance of hppd symptoms will follow.

Unfortunately @dasitmane, with your current attitude, you will continue to suffer from this curse for a long time to come. Your frantic efforts to search for a cure are a waste of time and sadly drag others who give you credibility along the same sorry road.

@Lucas, good and interesting posts. Our views are similar save for that you lean to plastic changes in the brain whereas I lean to subconscious over emphasis of normal low level of visual snow. In my opinion your evidence is more likely to be due to a subconscious psychological change over a physiological one. It seems un plausible that you could change your brains chemistry and or structure by watching television. 

Subconscious changes in perception of visual stimulate occur continuously through life, becoming good at spotting opponents in the corner of your eye by playing call of duty is a good example. 

Edited February 16, 2020 by TryingToHelp

[Lucas]

Haha it's funny because the last sentence of your post implies that you can indeed change your brain chemistry and/or structure by watching a screen

The brain is continously adaptating and is doing so by creating and destructing connections between neurons, this is what is called plasticity. What you call a psychological change is ultimately a physical change. Then again I will make a post explaining my reasoning.

In regards to your theory with anxiety, I'm an example of someone with HPPD and no anxiety, but I got it from an anticholinergic so that may explain why.

I appreciate your constructive approach to conversation man

 

[TryingToHelp]

r@Lucas you are right, what in my terms is a psychological change is in your terms a plastic change in the form of rewiring / formation of neuronal connections. Basically that is what we call learning and it is happening to every one right now as a continual process.

This is distinct from the various physiological theories that imply chemical changes or 'brain damage' and which I think are barking up the wrong tree.

I think there is the distinct possibility of a bonafide consistent treatment out there around the principle we discuss.

Some combination of a desensitization process like the one you have put forward with some other kind of anti anxiety/ PTSD process, and maybe some other things as well.

I think the process could start with accepting that the visuals are normal noise that all people have the ability to see and go from there. An educational and  acceptance process would be important as if like many you are convinced that you have brain damage, you will never recover.

Maybe helping the sufferer to recall childhood visual experiences could help too in taking away some of the fear of the visual symptoms.

I also think it is important for the sufferer to completely detach things like depersonalisation, tinnitus and derealization from the visuals. I think that those are symptoms of comorbid anxiety and not caused by the same process that is behind the visual symptoms.

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by TryingToHelp

[Fawkinchit]

7 hours ago, TryingToHelp said:

@dasitmane

Please will you stop trolling my posts and calling me e.g. an imbecile for not recognising the 'utter brilliance' of your amateur scientific investigations. I have read all of your 'evidence' and frankly it, along with your responses to my posts, bears the hallmarks of an uneducated obsessive madman. 

6 hours ago, TryingToHelp said:

@dasitmane, this is a simple and logical idea, much more plausible than some of your 'thoeries'.

E.g. fungus infection, the liver, heating of the brain and all the other rubbish you have wasted your time with.

So many studies around physiological causes and drug treatments have contradicting outcome. 

The only consistent and reliable treatment is to take care of anxiety and general physical and mental health. Sort that out and the reduction or disappearance of hppd symptoms will follow.

Unfortunately @dasitmane, with your current attitude, you will continue to suffer from this curse for a long time to come. Your frantic efforts to search for a cure are a waste of time and sadly drag others who give you credibility along the same sorry road.

 

Damn bro your vast amount of evidence is really convincing! Huge claims, zero proof. Meanwhile I’ve easily and systematically proved you’re theory not only highly improbable, but also significantly ridiculous. Goodnight sweet prince shoulda hit the books before you thought you were the one lmao.

you’re garbage bro

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by dasitmane

[dayum_son]

@TryingToHelp

At first I was being diplomatic since I think everyone gets to have a second chance. But now I'll say it : Please fuck right off. You're just a troll and do not contribute anything to this forum.

If it were for you, every single disorder is caused by anxiety.

Yes I'll repeat it again, Fuck. Off.

[olivier24445]

I totally discard any psychosomatic explanations.

Anxiety is a consequence, not a cause.