What does Nitrous or Kratom does to HPPD?

[yosoydiego]

 

Hi, weird question, I'd appreciate the opinion of everyone here that has done NITROUS or KRATOM, alone (not in combination with other drugs), AFTER having HPPD... and how it was, if it made it better, worse, neutral, etc. Also, how much of the drugs were used, and if they are taking any other medication at the moment.

It's just a research question, I'm not asking if it's OK for me to take it (damn, I don't even have HPPD!)

Thanks!

[Jay1]

Here's a post I made on reddit to address any topic about drugs and hppd (I appreciate you are asking as a non hppd user)

 

The only answer to ALL drug questions here

No one knows how YOU will react. It could be fine for 100 people, but you might not have the right genetic/neurological make up and be the unlucky one. No drug is 100% safe for 100% of hppd sufferers, not a single one. You might get lucky and be fine, you might get lucky and only get a spike for a week or so, you might get unlucky and have a prolonged spike or you might get unlucky and fuck yourself for the rest of your life. No amount of reinforcement from online users changes any of the above.

 

I'm not saying this to preach, i've made myself worse by doing more drugs, because.. well, we all love drugs and we all want to try and cheat the hppd system by finding a safe one. But it's not out there. I'm also not saying to not ask for advice if you are planning to do drugs. Just to be aware that no amount of 3rd hand anecdotes are really relevant to YOU or your chances of making yourself worse or having a safe time.

[yosoydiego]

Jay1, I appreciate the answer, but I strongly disagree.

HPPD is far from understood, and as such, having an open mind and questioning everything, could be key. Throwing an blanket statement over it won't help anyone.

What you said: "No drug is 100% safe for 100% of hppd sufferers, not a single one" , is clearly WRONG, because you can't know that, you don't even have a fraction of a fraction of the data necessary to make that blank statement. Specially if we use the term "drug" as it should be used, as ANYTHING that affect our bodies, not only the illegal ones, which is only a semi-arbitrary selection.

Undoubtedly the same "DON'T DO ANY DRUGS, IT WILL MAKE YOU WORSE" has been repeated once and again to people with depression, PTSD, etc etc, and there you have it now... ketamine, psylocibin, mdma, LSD, nitrous, etc, showing more than promising prospects of being unbelievable breakthrough treatments.

Of course, common sense has to be applied. If LSD is clearly linked to worsen HPPD, I'm not going to ask if DOI, AL-LAD, ETH-LAD, etc, worsen HPPD... most likely, they will.

But nitrous for example is a complete different entity. In fact its classification as "drug" is dubious, if that's what worries you, as it's usually legal, but only if you eat it, not if you inhale it hehe. But mainly, it has had (and still has) way more excellent medical use than what it has recreationally, and the study on depression might be opening even more doors for it.

Opioids, the worse kind of drugs, are also not linked to HPPD.

In understanding those differences, could lay the key to actually understand what's going on behind it all.

 

"keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out"

 

[Jay1]

We have A LOT of anecdotal data over 10-15 years here... What I said stands true to literally every drug ever mentioned here, even clonazepam, which actually helps most hppd sufferers. We have had a user turn suicidal from kratom and had to spend months in a pysch unit, even though most users either had no reaction or enjoyed it. Opoids send my hppd into meltdown in terms of DPDR. The drugs you are mentioning, they might not give you hppd, but they have huge effects on some hppd users... Damn, even a mouthful of coffee sends me insane.

You can say all you like about fractions of fractions of data, but I am certain that, as the longest standing hppd forum, we have the most data (anecdotal) on this particular topic, so it has some meaning. 

[Fawkinchit]

On 9/27/2019 at 10:17 AM, Jay1 said:

We have A LOT of anecdotal data over 10-15 years here... What I said stands true to literally every drug ever mentioned here, even clonazepam, which actually helps most hppd sufferers. We have had a user turn suicidal from kratom and had to spend months in a pysch unit, even though most users either had no reaction or enjoyed it. Opoids send my hppd into meltdown in terms of DPDR. The drugs you are mentioning, they might not give you hppd, but they have huge effects on some hppd users... Damn, even a mouthful of coffee sends me insane.

You can say all you like about fractions of fractions of data, but I am certain that, as the longest standing hppd forum, we have the most data (anecdotal) on this particular topic, so it has some meaning. 

See and thats really interesting because when I take opiod related pain killers it doesn't bother me in the slightest lol. Coffee however I think we can all agree lmao.

[dayum_son]

I can say with confidence that Kratom did worsen my visuals. And mixing it with weed was a big no no.

And every single other drug I take/took worsens my symptoms. Even potassium/calcium supplements. The only one that didn't do anything noticeable was cocaine. And as far as I can remember, many people noticed this too. But cocaine is by far the shittiest drug I tried after LSD.

[Fawkinchit]

5 hours ago, dayum_son said:

I can say with confidence that Kratom did worsen my visuals. And mixing it with weed was a big no no.

And every single other drug I take/took worsens my symptoms. Even potassium/calcium supplements. The only one that didn't do anything noticeable was cocaine. And as far as I can remember, many people noticed this too. But cocaine is by far the shittiest drug I tried after LSD.

Whoa... What... let me get this straight. You did cocaine after getting HPPD? Lmao wtf. So this is really intriguing though... it didn't make it worse??? And other people have mentioned this??

[dayum_son]

Yes I'm not very smart. Let's say that I did many drugs before I knew what HPPD was.

From worst to least effects :

-Acid (no shit Sherlock)

-Weed

-Ketamine

-MDMA

-4-MMC (Mephedrone)

-Alcohol

-Nicotine

-Cocaine

Even though I am talking about "worse" effects, HPPD returned to baseline in a matter of a week (3 weeks for weed though).

But I never was a huge consumer and always consumed within safe dosages, without mixing and with reasonable intervals between each sesh. And tested all my drugs, so I guess that helped.

Drugs are bad m'kay ?

[yosoydiego]

On 9/27/2019 at 6:17 PM, Jay1 said:

You can say all you like about fractions of fractions of data, but I am certain that, as the longest standing hppd forum, we have the most data (anecdotal) on this particular topic, so it has some meaning. 

The key to turn anecdotal data into useful information, is turn humans into numbers... even if it sounds cruel. Big numbers, statistics. You can't rule out, for example, kratom, because ONE user had problems with it, specially considering that you never have ceteris paribus and you'll find anecdotes like the above, where kratom was mixed with weed.

In general, kratom is an opioid, and opioids seem to be "ok" in hppd terms.  (Again, I'm not a fan of kratom in any sense, it's just an example)

Anyway, Nitrous isn't a common drug, specially not combined with other stuff, so I know it's a difficult question, but looking forward to reading more about it

 

 

[yosoydiego]

Just copying here what someone replied on reddit:

Quote

Like others have said, Keaton has no affect positive or negative on my HPPD.

Weirdly enough, I got nitrous assuming it would be like taking a hit of acid in terms of how it messed with my visuals. But it doesnt make them any worse. As far as I know its mechanism isnt fully understood. However, I had a bad manic episode where I was awake for like 80 hours. On the very first day I was doing nitrous and after taking a hit I had a kind of psychosis like reaction to it, it was super duper awful. However I was horribly sleep deprived. Now I can use nitrous with no negative impacts, though i will never reccomend using any drugs to someone else with HPPD.

Of course the part of sleep deprived and/or cocaine has to be taken out of the anecdote, but apart from that, he seems positive that nitrous on its own is neutral to his hppd.

Clearly, it's still only ONE experience.

But I think it's worth questioning why a drug that is both psychedelic and dissociative, seems to be neutral to a condition characterized by both psychedelic and dissociative effects... Granted, nitrous effects are really short, and probably a fair comparison with other drugs would only come from a serious binge.

But... it has potential as a depression treatment, with depression being a common "side-effect" of HPPD.

And, it seems to lower cortisol levels, with cortisol being a stress-indicator, and stress being a clear HPPD trigger and worsening factor.

Maybe laughing gas is not something to laugh about

[yosoydiego]

Similarly, and I guess this one has been more discussed everywhere, ketamine seems to help some people. Maybe in the short term, and worse long term?

https://www.reddit.com/r/HPPD/comments/d9gnm2/anyone_have_experience_with_ketamine_please_share/

[Jay1]

Reddit /hppd is a cesspit of people who's main focus is to continue drugs after hppd use. You'll get positive feedback about taking fucking LSD with hppd over there.

[4c1d]

On 9/29/2019 at 11:11 PM, dayum_son said:

I can say with confidence that Kratom did worsen my visuals. And mixing it with weed was a big no no.

And every single other drug I take/took worsens my symptoms. Even potassium/calcium supplements. The only one that didn't do anything noticeable was cocaine. And as far as I can remember, many people noticed this too. But cocaine is by far the shittiest drug I tried after LSD.

Why did LSD affect you the worst? Just curious because I hold the same view despite only trying LSD xD lol

[dayum_son]

Let's say that it is LSD that landed me on this forum.

[4c1d]

5 hours ago, dayum_son said:

Let's say that it is LSD that landed me on this forum.

Shit yeah, me too. How many times had you taken it? You mentioned you took other drugs so are you certain the effects are from LSD as opposed to say, weed?

[dayum_son]

Recreational doses (usually 120ugs), about 5 times.

Recreational doses per se never gave me unintended visuals days after the sesh. What triggered this wonderful disorder is microdosing once a week and smoking weed at the end of the day. One day I woke up and the visual snow just stayed there.

I think consuming acid microdoses with weed strongly increased the chances of me getting HPPD.

[Guest]

@yosoydiego

I’m curious who you work for; MAPS, Buckley, Heffter, etc?