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Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Support Forum

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 I have only done about 10 hours of research on this, which is not much. Ideally I would like a couple more weeks to wrap my head around something before I recommend it and I need time to see the long-term effects for me also. But I have a strong inclination to quickly get this information to the group, so perhaps this will help someone else suffering. Maybe this works, maybe it doesn't. I cannot recommend this as a cure, but I can only say this has helped me. However, I am not sure if it placebo. Anyways, I did an 18 hour fast and it helped with my HPPD.


             I will keep the anecdote short, because anecdotes never matter. What really matters is science and peer-review. I did this short-fast because I saw someone on here mention in a success story of curing HPPD on a 3 day fast. Someone commenting suggesting that it has to do with "neurogenesis". I did research on neurogenesis and it happens throughout our lives, such as during exercise or sex, so it doesn’t seem very significant. But, I stumbled upon a term called "autophagy"
ah-ta-fa-gee. Researching this process gave me motivation to try a 18 hour fast. My HPPD since then has gotten better. On a scale of 1-10 my symptoms have been at a 5 since Saturday, when they usually average about 7 or 8. I am theorizing my symptoms decreased because fasting induces autophagy.


            Here is Autophagy from an article . "Short-term fasting induces profound neuronal autophagy"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/ Autophagy is a key homeostatic mechanism whose physiological importance is reflected by its preservation throughout the eukaryotic phylogenetic tree, from yeast to mammals. In recent years, autophagy has been recognized as a crucial defense mechanism against malignancy, infection and neurodegenerative diseases


                    Here is another definition. "Autophagy: cellular and molecular mechanisms" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990190/ Autophagy is a self-degradative process that is important for balancing sources of energy at critical times in development and in response to nutrient stress. Autophagy also plays a housekeeping role in removing misfolded or aggregated proteins, clearing damaged organelles, such as mitochondria, endoplasmic reticulum and peroxisomes, as well as eliminating intracellular pathogens. Thus, autophagy is generally thought of as a survival mechanism. Autophagy is strongly induced by starvation and is a key component of the adaptive response of cells and organisms to nutrient deprivation that promotes survival until nutrients become available again.


               Stay with me here. But it pretty much takes out damaged cells from our brains and recycles them in the liver. This process is activated via fasting.
"Neuronal autophagy: going the distance to the axon." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18000396/ Furthermore, our study implicates dysfunction of axonal autophagy as a potential mechanism underlying axonopathy, which is linked to neurodegeneration associated with numerous human neurological disorders
Let me know what you think, I am always prepared to be entirely wrong. There is no research on a link between autophagy and HPPD obviously. So I am assuming a causal relationship that bad neurons are the cause of HPPD.


             Here are more articles. I am hoping someone can partner and help me with this.
"Disruption of Neuronal Autophagy by Infected Microglia Results in Neurodegeneration" http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0002906
"Constitutive autophagy: vital role in clearance of unfavorable proteins in neurons." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17332773/

I found 2 posts of anecdotal claims.
2013 bluelight.com post about fasting curing hppd. http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-688613.html
2017 Reddit.com hppd forum success story about fasting curing hppd https://www.reddit.com/r/HPPD/comments/6ybbcs/success_story/

                    You can do an easy 18-hour fast by not eating after dinner at 5pm, and then not eating until noon the next day. Make sure you are healthy and talk to your doctor. I would like a couple people to try this to see if this actually works. I am going to start another fast today and I will report back in a week or so. Hopefully it works.

                Potential adverse effects for women. there are claims that fasting can cause missed periods.  Also, unfortunately it seems autophagy is less profound with females. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19036730/ In other words, the damaged neurons have a harder time dying off. For men, fasting will temporary lower testosterone. Do your own research and talk to your doctor.

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Thanks for posting and I hope everyone here considers some form of fasting for their overall health even if they find no immediate benefits in relation to HPPD. 

I'm highly skeptical of the idea that fasting alone can "cure" HPPD. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's not possible but because I'm no scientist I can't entirely rule it out. That said, fasting is a well-known agent in fostering neurogenesis.

I don't know why but lately I've been coming across all sorts of articles and podcasts about the benefits of fasting and this post is of course no exception. I've done many 18-24 hour fasts over the last few years and though I've generally felt better afterwards it's quite clear they don't have the power to rapidly alter the HPPD state -- just as is the case with anything. HPPD recovery is a long, slow, arduous process that often lasts years. Though fasting of some kind should act as a tool in everyone's arsenal -- just like healthy eating, exercise, meditation, therapy, etc. -- I think it's wise not to get carried away with the idea it's going to act as a miracle cure. Eating healthy food can also be just as beneficial as fasting. Same with rigorous exercise, sleep, learning a new language and so on down the line. 

If there's anything I've learned over the last few years it's that there is no current cure for HPPD; however, there are many activities and natural processes by which, if repeated in a healthy manner, can drastically reduce HPPD over time and eventually heal your brain entirely. But again, these take repetitive practice day after day over the course of years. The brain has an incredible power to heal but it does not heal overnight. 

Edited by K.B.Fante
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19 hours ago, K.B.Fante said:

Thanks for posting and I hope everyone here considers some form of fasting for their overall health even if they find no immediate benefits in relation to HPPD. 

I'm highly skeptical of the idea that fasting alone can "cure" HPPD. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's not possible but because I'm no scientist I can't entirely rule it out. That said, fasting is a well-known agent in fostering neurogenesis.

I don't know why but lately I've been coming across all sorts of articles and podcasts about the benefits of fasting and this post is of course no exception. I've done many 18-24 hour fasts over the last few years and though I've generally felt better afterwards it's quite clear they don't have the power to rapidly alter the HPPD state -- just as is the case with anything. HPPD recovery is a long, slow, arduous process that often lasts years. Though fasting of some kind should act as a tool in everyone's arsenal -- just like healthy eating, exercise, meditation, therapy, etc. -- I think it's wise not to get carried away with the idea it's going to act as a miracle cure. Eating healthy food can also be just as beneficial as fasting. Same with rigorous exercise, sleep, learning a new language and so on down the line. 

If there's anything I've learned over the last few years it's that there is no current cure for HPPD; however, there are many activities and natural processes by which, if repeated in a healthy manner, can drastically reduce HPPD over time and eventually heal your brain entirely. But again, these take repetitive practice day after day over the course of years. The brain has an incredible power to heal but it does not heal overnight. 

I never implied that it was a cure, it is not a cure for the record. Most people would have figured it out by now if it was. But it could potentially have a healing affect if used overtime. Authophagy, like a detailed, could possibly accelerate the rate at which the brain is healing.

Eating healthy is a good one too. Everyone mentions this all the time, but most people are not familiar with the peer review research of nutrition or what food groups we should be eating. So I may be posting some of my own research on that also. Cheers. 

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2 hours ago, Bursting Aura said:

I never implied that it was a cure, it is not a cure for the record. Most people would have figured it out by now if it was. But it could potentially have a healing affect if used overtime. Authophagy, like a detailed, could possibly accelerate the rate at which the brain is healing.

Eating healthy is a good one too. Everyone mentions this all the time, but most people are not familiar with the peer review research of nutrition or what food groups we should be eating. So I may be posting some of my own research on that also. Cheers. 

Yeah, I didn't mean to make it sound like you were suggesting it was a cure, it's just that when I read the word "cure" I'm always a bit nervous about what follows. 

I've made a few posts about food since it's what I feel has helped me most thus far. Here's a few from the last half year or so: 

http://hppdonline.com/topic/5537-the-science-of-smarter-eating/

http://hppdonline.com/topic/5431-nightshades/

http://hppdonline.com/topic/5453-glutamate/

http://hppdonline.com/topic/5344-a-routine-thats-helping-for-newcomers-especially/

 

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On 11/9/2017 at 9:35 PM, K.B.Fante said:

Yeah, I didn't mean to make it sound like you were suggesting it was a cure, it's just that when I read the word "cure" I'm always a bit nervous about what follows. 

I've made a few posts about food since it's what I feel has helped me most thus far. Here's a few from the last half year or so: 

http://hppdonline.com/topic/5537-the-science-of-smarter-eating/

http://hppdonline.com/topic/5431-nightshades/

http://hppdonline.com/topic/5453-glutamate/

http://hppdonline.com/topic/5344-a-routine-thats-helping-for-newcomers-especially/

 

In short, what is your opinion on general nutrition and specifically what should people with HPPD eat? I am checking out your posts right now. Thanks

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4 hours ago, Bursting Aura said:

In short, what is your opinion on general nutrition and specifically what should people with HPPD eat? I am checking out your posts right now. Thanks

In short, mostly the same thing anyone should do with serious health problems: eat whole foods, eliminate fast food, cut way down on added sugar and sugar in general, drink more water, fast here and there (as you point out), eat a balanced diet, etc. There are foods that specifically benefit brain health (turmeric, wild salmon, berries, nuts, a little dark chocolate here and there, tea, etc.) but as long as you're eating whole foods that come from the earth and not a factory you're gonna be alright. It's also important to not overdo anything. I've learned this the hard way, but essentially you can eat too much of anything and cause yourself problems. This is especially true for HPPD. In my experience aiming for a light ketogenic or paleo diet has been beneficial too, but again, following these sorts of trends religiously will only get you in trouble. They're best used as a rough guideline. 

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Intermittent fasting is the optimal healthy way of eating for human beings regardless of HPPD.

Eating every 2-3 hours is just going to overload your system. Digesting constantly wears the body out.

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      -E
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      Hi friends —
       
      My experience with HPPD started about 4 1/2 years ago, with a single dose of MDMA.
      For me, my symptoms are: anxiety/panic, DP/DR, visual snow, flashing solid colors, some tinnitus, and seeing movement in geometric patterns.
      Also: I used to always be a “crier” and someone who feels their emotions very deeply. During the first few weeks of HPPD, I cried so much, some times out of misery, some times out of gratitude to still be alive, some times because I heard some beautiful music and felt connected to it. But then after a few weeks my emotionality faded, which I assume must have been a psychological coping mechanism. I was so overwhelmed with anxiety that I had to shut down emotionally to stay sane. So no more tears or feelings of meaningful connection. I still want to feel those cry-feels so bad!.
      Over the next two years I got better at managing my symptoms, but saw little to no improvement in them. I was still smoking weed often (my bad) & still couldn’t really FEEL, and my anxiety was off the charts 24/7. It was absolute hell every waking day.
      A little over two years ago I started on 10mg Celexa, and the improvement I saw in my anxiety levels was life changing. Not gone completely, but I started feeling significantly better and my anxiety attacks became fewer and farther between. Worked my way up to 20mg, which is my current dose.
      A few months ago I finally found a neuro who is actually familiar with HPPD, who added Lamictal, ramping up VERY slowly (I only got up to 37.5mg/day). In the first month (2 weeks on 12.5, 2 weeks on 25) I started to notice my visual symptoms clearing up slightly and my brain feeling a bit clearer. It was actually the best I had felt since before HPPD and I was excited to continue ramping up on the lamictal, hoping it might help get me to a place where I can really feel emotions aside from anxiety again.
      After that first month though, things started to get unpleasant again. Bouts of anxiety attacks, some good days, some very bad. It felt like I had been consistently alright for a while, but now my worst symptoms are pushing their way back in. I also developed minor muscle twitches every few minutes, which was completely new. I was prescribed Klonopin after a particularly bad anxiety attack and now I take 0.25mg when I feel myself getting panicky. I don’t like it, but it does keep me from panic. I quit smoking weed then (a few months ago), but that hasn’t helped.
      My hopeful suspicion is that perhaps I’m experiencing SSRI “poop out” with my Celexa, and could therefore ideally switch SSRIs and continue with lamictal. My neuro says the only way to know that for sure is to come back off the lamictal and see how it feels to just be on the Celexa again. Back down to 25 from 37.5 lamictal and feeling a bit worse actually, but my neuro says I need to get down to zero and wait two months to see what the deal really is. I’d much rather keep my lamictal dosage as is, and try switching to a different SSRI, as that just feels more “right” to me - but she’s the professional so ...
      If it turns out that I’m actually not tolerating lamictal well, I am interested in looking into sinemet... it seems to have been a wonder drug for some people here, but I would be very worried about developing dyskinesia, as I work in a field where that could ruin my career.
      No targeted questions here really, just looking to share relevant experiences/advice with other HPPD’ers. ❤️
       
      PS: for anyone doing the ol’ downward mental spiral in these forums and feeling hopeless (like I used to), things WILL get better. I’m still having struggles but I’m not in hell like I used to be, and life is very worth living for me right now! I have my bachelors and masters degrees, a solid career at 25, wonderful friendships, and going by objective criteria, am a fully functional human being. You will be okay! Keep advocating for yourself!
    • By K.cokes
      Ive been accidently dosed like 8 tabs of liquid acid, and stupidly continued "tripping," even after that. So I started noticing a static over my vision, and I thought nothing of it at first. It has gotten much worse, and I haven't taken L.S.D in over a month. It especially gets worse if I'm smoking weed, it literally makes me have acid like visuals. Even without weed I get, tracers, halos around light, I get the pattern formation that forms when you take L, everything looks like it's shifting and melting, my anxiety has gotten progressively worse, I get visual snow, and I have pain behind my eyes sometimes, like a pressure almost, I have really bad after images, pretty much on anything bright, or lit up. Today for example I was driving, and looked at a stop sign when I looked down I saw the stop sign in my vision with my eyes open or closed. Does it ever get better, and is does it mean your brain is ruined?
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