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VisualDude

Thiamine Cocarboxylase

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Bio-3B-G 3 tablets a day woks fine, i accept the digestive problems. i dont feel the anxiety for dp anymore and my dr is more accetable, not a wonder med. But it makes me clear headed in some way and a little more happy (at times)

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I had a string of days feeling great. Then I accidentally left my TC at work over the weekend. Both days I went back to feeling like my old self. Yesturday took my TC again and had another great day.

Could the TC be helping the Keppra and Sinemet be effective?

 

Was a little surprised that after a few weeks you would feel the affects of missing it.  This makes me wonder if there is more that just a genetic conversion going on.  Certainly with myself, taking 100mg of thiamine mononitrate does absolutely nothing decernable, yet 3mg cocarboxylase does help - this would seem to be genetics.

 

But thinking about your experience here, decided to try 6 pills a day instead of 3 pill (9mg TC instead of 4.5mg).  I feel happier, lighter spirited, more 'connected'.  This was not expected.  Thought that after repletion, a simple maintenance would due.  The US RDA is 1.5mg/day, but that is based on young, healthy collage volunteers.  HPPD is not exactly healthy ... and I'm hardly young.

 

 

Im gonna stop saying sorry for late replies. I switch so fast between feeling the need to visit the site and be on it, so i guess you are used to it now  :)

 

Yes! it does give me that. I have just startet taking the pure b1 cocarb supplement from source natural (16mg/pill). Much more energy, but digestive problems yes. Overall its hard to say anything profound but i feel a lot at ease on this but a little strange as well. Hard to say what it is, just being more energetic or if changed some of the perception threw becoming more clear.

 

Bio-3B-G 3 tablets a day woks fine, i accept the digestive problems. i dont feel the anxiety for dp anymore and my dr is more accetable, not a wonder med. But it makes me clear headed in some way and a little more happy (at times)

 

Don't know what to think about digestion issues since thiamine is supposed to help diarrhea, not encourage it.

 

The biggest obstacles people might face are:

  • It can be very subtle, so you feel unsure of exactly how it is affecting you
  • It is a change, perhaps even some initial negatives, so with change one can feel strange/unfamiliar.  HPPDers are tired of unexpected changes ... sometimes even subtle ones can be unnerving.

It would be much easier for a person to be pleased if it was a 'miracle' pill, which it is not.

 

Lots of reports of improved energy/fatigue.  A subtle sense of improvement.  Yet more that a placebo, as there is a repeatability.

 

 

 

 

The thing about thiamine is normally a person should not need to supplement it.  So taking more should do nothing good or bad.  Yet of the few who have tried it, only Jay felt nothing, which is what happens (should say 'not happen') with most things he had tried.  And should happen if you do not need it.

 

Its response will be according to need:

  • Quick effects = moderate to severe thiamine deficiency
  • Slow effects = mild thiamine deficiency
  • No effects = No thiamine deficiency (Note: it should be tried for at least a month)

The seriousness of Thiamine is significant:

  1. Thiamine deficiency alters neurotransmitters (Acetylcholine, Dopamine, Gaba, Glutamate, Serotonin, +++)
  2. Thiamine sufficiency means taking more will have no effect
  3. There are no medical reports of serious problems from taking oral thiamine in modest amounts (even >100mg)
  4. If there is any effect, good or bad, that is evidence that it is needed (see 1 and 2)
  5. If the effect is good, one feels encouraged to continue taking it
  6. If the effect is negative, one feels discouraged but should talk to their doctor about it since even a negative effect indicates a need
  7. If it has no effect, give it at least a month
  8. If a person has been thiamine deficient long enough to have neurological alterations, then it will take time (months) to fully normalize
  9. If a person has a thiamine deficiency, then it is not possible to ever get well until the deficiency is resolved - this is emphatic and medically established
  10. The only reason to take cocarboxylase instead of 'regular' forms is if one isn't responding to 'regular' forms.  Ironically, cocarboxylase is less toxic that regular forms

 

This was posted on another thread, but copied it here because I'd like members to search for medical reports of negative effects from taking thiamine.  The only thing I can find is a person might have an allergic type of response to 100mg injection of mononitrate.  That and the general disclaimers posted that it is possible to have bad reactions to anything.  Technically a person cannot be allergic to thiamine because it is not possible to be alive without it.  But certain forms, fillers, impurities, and/or a dramatic influx could be an issue.

 

So if you can find negative medical info about thiamine, it might be balancing here.  For I am surprised about not being able to find bonafide negative reports.  Certainly Sinemet, Keppra, Klonopin and all other meds have downfalls.  And other vitamins such as B6 and folate have toxicity warnings about taking too much.

 

Certainly point #9 is valid ... and possibly a key for some HPPDers.

health-beauty-natural_causes-cause_of_de

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Im now on my 3rd day taking thiamine carbo 5mg in the morning.

No more brainfog after waking up, no more fatigue although I got enough sleep and increased energy level.

Its a great supplement - it makes me feel better although I smoked weed the last 3 days.

But I have to say that my HPPD is "mild" in contrast to other peoples. I dont have DP/DR, no strong brainfog (only 3-4 hours after waking up), no anxiety etc.. 

The only issues are tinnitus and the brightness at day.

I have all visuals of HPPD but that dont bothers me.

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Im now on my 3rd day taking thiamine carbo 5mg in the morning.

No more brainfog after waking up, no more fatigue although I got enough sleep and increased energy level.

Its a great supplement - it makes me feel better although I smoked weed the last 3 days.

But I have to say that my HPPD is "mild" in contrast to other peoples. I dont have DP/DR, no strong brainfog (only 3-4 hours after waking up), no anxiety etc.. 

The only issues are tinnitus and the brightness at day.

I have all visuals of HPPD but that dont bothers me.

 

This is very good to hear ... and just 3 days so far!  More people are responding than anticipated.

 

My tinnitus is mild and remains the same, but brightness has changed gradual though significantly (this has been different than sensitivity).  Perhaps over time you will too.

 

 
Just got this information from a nutritionist who works with Biotics Research:
 
BIO-3B-G - Product is same as BIO-B 100 except is three times higher in phosphorylated thiamine.  Consider 2-4 tables, 3 times a day where increase thiamine is required (low blood pressure, psychological stress, hypoglycemia, adrenal cortical hypofunction, severe fatigue, etc.)  When the need for thiamine is high, dose at 2 tablets per waking hour for 10-20 days http://www.bioticsresearch.com/sites/default/files/productlabels/1137-web.pdf
 
BIO-B 100 - A multiple B vitamin containing the phosphorylated forms of B1, B2 and B6.  Use with sensitivity to light, sound, smell, chronic need for HCl, night sweats, burning feet, glycemic problems, general lack of energy.  Bio-B 100 is a synergist to magnesium and zinc. http://www.bioticsresearch.com/sites/default/files/productlabels/1133-web_0.pdf
 
 
It mentions sensitivity to light.  Also, notice that the dose taken can be much higher.
 
Please provide a link to the product you are using so it can be compared with this info.  Thanks

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Hey Visual, thx for your respond.

 

Im using this supplement: https://www.bioticsresearch.com/sites/default/files/FAQ%2011-41%20Bio-Immunozyme%20Forte%20BRC.pdf

Im only taking 1 pill

 

So I smoked 3 days in a row marihuana (haze with some kief) with a very high amount of THC and less CBD. Amd it doesnt made me tripping, it made me very stoned and, like I smoked a high CBD strain. 

 

I think i can never get high anymore. :D

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Hey Visual, thx for your respond.

 

Im using this supplement: https://www.bioticsresearch.com/sites/default/files/FAQ%2011-41%20Bio-Immunozyme%20Forte%20BRC.pdf

Im only taking 1 pill

 

So I smoked 3 days in a row marihuana (haze with some kief) with a very high amount of THC and less CBD. Amd it doesnt made me tripping, it made me very stoned and, like I smoked a high CBD strain. 

 

I think i can never get high anymore. :D

 

Thanks ... forgot you already told us the product  :blink:

 

Are you taking just one a day?  Have you tried 2 or 3?

 

 

have you tried benfotiamine, which is meant to raise thiamine pyrophosphate levels, and is a bit cheaper, and has some other benefits?

 

Some of the medical reports are about thiamine analogs such as benfotiamine.  It is logical they would help.  I haven't tried any of them.  For consistency, am suggesting people first try thiamine cocarboxylase and report response.  Then it would be cool for some to try these analogs and report how they respond.  It does seem that no one here response noticeably to thiamine mononitrate or thiamine hcl.

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I feel energie when I take 2 at 8 am. Then at 1 oclock I crash HARD.

 

Interesting, for years since this stuff started, afternoon crash is normal.  TC extends the time before crash.

 

Do you only crash when taking TC?  

 

Have you tried 2 more at 12 oclock to see if that reduces crash?

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Been wondering if the level of 'sensitivity' to meds/supplements that many HPPDers report is the biggest thing that thiamine cocarboxylase would help.  Or if that sensitivity is an indicator of the need for it.

 

For example,

  • Since taking TC, am much less sensitive to things that used to bother me.  Before taking TC, benadryl would bother some visuals.  Now it has no effect on them.  The need for dopamine meds has reduced so am taking less - taking more does not improve things.
  • Two members have reported some negative symptoms from thiamine (which, as a broken record, should do nothing for anybody).  These members are very sensitive to things - even vitamin C and B12.  One at least is taking other meds that most HPPDers report problems with (again, there is no fixed rule as to what works for one person compared to another).

 

It will take more participants and feedback to ascertain if there is a hypersensitivity connection to their need for thiamine.  Certainly thiamine deficient people are hypersensitive.

 

Generally speaking, HPPDers don't do well with antipsychotics or SSRIs.  It would be interesting to see of those taking these and trying TC are the ones reporting the most mixed results.  If a person is thiamine deficient, their brain has had to adapt to lower energy metabolism and not being able to make the correct amounts of several neurotransmitters.  Once deficiency is being corrected, the brain will start to correctly make neurotransmitters ... this will lead to a different balance that meds are now fighting with, instead of resolving, ... and then members would have to reduce those meds to compensate for the brain repairing itself.  These individuals would likely react to the very first dose of TC.

 

Time, participation and feedback will be needed to answer these questions.

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2 days ago i bought a b complex with thiamine hydrochloride in it

 

this one

 

https://www.sisu.com/sisu/products/product.jsp?category=500⊂=501&id=273

 

took it at night and it increased my visuals, racing thoughts, dp/dr instantly. i then took another half zoplicone and eventually passed out. when i woke up i felt much better. i was thinking clearer, less dp/dr, less visuals and brain fog.

 

id say everything was about 15% better or so at different points through out the day. it started wearing off later into the night. my trails became heavier and i felt more dr.

 

took another capsule at night and i didnt have the same immediate reaction to it as i did the night before.

 

however i had a very bad sleep, woke up today feeling really fucked up. confused, majorly increased DR, increased visuals, looming panic attack, dizzy and nauseous. very numb and muddled.

 

now its 2:30 and im really out of it.

 

could it be the one i bought was too strong? is it mixing with the lamitrogine? i felt so much better yesterday and so fucking horrible today.

 

i bought another b complex today with less riboflavin which could be the culprit as too much can cause dizzyness and nausea

 

heres the one i bought

 

http://organika.com/product/b-vitamins/vitamin-b-complex/

 

yesterday was promising and today im very discouraged again. id really love to find something that helps and continues to help without it always making things worse :(

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Both these supplements are considerably higher amounts than the Bio-GGG-B that you tried, or the Bio-3B-G that I like.  But the amounts are very typical of B-complexes and people do not usually have any problems ... let alone the severe difficulty you are suffering.

 

We now know it isn't cocarboxylase causing the problem since neither of these 2 new products you have contain any

 

At this point, you would need to buy individual B vitamins instead of complexes.  Then try them one at a time ... which is tiring to say the least.

 

A quick look a Google shows that Lamotrigine can cause deficiency in B6 and vitamin D.  And it seems that all antiseizures meds can lower vitamin D, including Keppra and Gabapentin.  Since vitamin D isn't in any of the complexes you purchased, then that is not why you are reacting so much.  It would seem that B6 is the first one to test.

 

Do you find that the GGG still gives you difficulties?  It's dose is much less than these others.

 

Since it seems to give you more energy sometimes and kept you up at night, what happens if you take it in the morning instead?

 

 

Another thought about vitamin C: Some people are very sensitive to corn, and most vitamin C is extracted from corn.  For these people, getting a 'C' derived from another source, such as beet or cassava can be important.

 

At any rate, try avoiding corn a little while since it is COX2 inflammatory and some HPPDers can have flareups from too much corn

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I've been drinking heavily for the last two weeks. A lot of the benefits have gone away. It may be I would feel a lot worse without it

 

Alcohol does reduce thiamine

Some HPPDers do fine with a little drinking

Some HPPDers have problems after

Some HPPDers have problems during

Some HPPDers have problems during and after

Some HPPDers say during they are nearly symptoms free but afterward its worse

Then there are visuals vs anxiety responding different

 

The famous Dr Abraham says:

  • Common triggers for HPPD symptoms include fatigue, marijuana, and alcohol. “Marijuana is probably the worst,” says Abraham. “For this population, it’s absolutely contraindicated. This is the kind of thing a doctor needs to tell them.” - http://dana.org/News/Details.aspx?id=43275

Best avoid heavy drinking.  Many drink a lot to self-medicate.  In the end, heavy drinking is harmful for anyone.

 

Do you find that it helps anxiety at the time?

 

 

While its a stretch to say TC is a cure, if a 'cure' was found, would people just double up on drugs and cancel the 'cure'?  

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Drinking has always been been an escape for me. I've also always felt worse the next day. In a sick way I seem to get comfort being able to tell myself I feel crappy cause I'm hung over.

While its a stretch to say TC is a cure, if a 'cure' was found, would people just double up on drugs and cancel the 'cure'?

What a great question!

I do know that the older I get. The desire to be part of life instead of checking out and missing life has grown. Drinking is what I consider "checking out".

My dog was hit and killed a couple weeks ago. Sort of started a drinking binge. I will be cutting back again.

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Drinking has always been been an escape for me. I've also always felt worse the next day. In a sick way I seem to get comfort being able to tell myself I feel crappy cause I'm hung over.

While its a stretch to say TC is a cure, if a 'cure' was found, would people just double up on drugs and cancel the 'cure'?

What a great question!

I do know that the older I get. The desire to be part of life instead of checking out and missing life has grown. Drinking is what I consider "checking out".

My dog was hit and killed a couple weeks ago. Sort of started a drinking binge. I will be cutting back again.

 

My little hound went down over two years ago ... still broken hearted about it.  First few months would have intense emotional flashbacks about her dying.  Perhaps a little insight for PTSDers - out of nowhere for no apparent reason.  Now it just causes very very sad feelings

 

 

Hello,

 

Maybe some of you remember me. I left this forum after mostly recovering thanks to Naltrexone. I was happy even if Naltrexone was causing me some strong side effects. Sadly, around September I relapsed with drugs and alcohol and became more messed up than ever. Been sober since then for more than 6 months now, and my HPPD is improving steadily.

 

I tried Naltrexone again but the side effects were very strong and my HPPD is not that bad now. I need to be able to give a presentation or behave normally in the University.. and Naltrexone impedes that with the insomnia, psychosis, and general weirdness.

 

So here I'm now. My visuals are weak and I'm not depressed or anxious. I'm suffering from brain fog, fatigue, and DP/DR. Those last symptoms are also improving but I want to forget all of this and be able to get good grades in my final exams. So I bought the good old effective supplements like magnesium, but as I saw this thread I have also bought a B-Complex, with thiamine cocarboxylase. This one:

 

http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-Coenzyme-B-Complex-Caps-240-Veggie-Caps/12081

Thiamin (vitamin B1) (as thiamine hydrochloride, thiamine cocarboxylase chloride) 50 mg 3,333%

 

I don't know the ratio, but as the quantities seem pretty strong I think there will be enough cocarboxylase. I plan on taking only one pill (half a serving). When I receive the shipment I will post here if it works for me. Hope so as I need the energy. In any case everything is going good, so I'm not that hard pressed for results.

 

Good luck everyone.

 

Interesting about Neltrexone.  Number of post of the forum.  Hear some say low dose worked for about a year.  

 

How much were you taking?

 

Thanks for participating in this trial ... hopefully you will be the one who benefits.  The product seems plenty strong, as long as there is some cocarboxylase, it should do.  

 

Have you been taking B vitamins already?

 

 

I would bet anything that that is exactly what would happen, at least for those with addiction problems. It took me 4 months sober to be able to got to a bar without experiencing strong cravings.. There is no rationality nor cost/benefit analysis when the prefrontal cortex is overridden and the adequate cues are present.

 

Lots of reasons people try drugs ... peer pressure, curiosity. etc...  Once its stuck in the mind, it becomes entertainment and/or a numbing agent which can wash away ones concerns.  Perhaps the trick is to find a new form of entertainment that is harmless.  Enjoyed Jay's perspective http://hppdonline.com/index.php?/topic/3556-life-hasnt-been-the-same/page-3#entry32290

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Would just like to post and say I tried this version by Country Life: http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-Coenzyme-B-Complex-Caps-240-Veggie-Caps/12081

 

I took only one today but it definitely seemed to help a lot. I felt much more in touch with myself, not as much DP, and things seemed more clear. I'll continue taking this to see how I feel down the road but I would agree that everyone should try this. 

 

Good stuff Visual. Keep up the great work.

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