Jump to content
Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) Support Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Painting the Void

Afobazole for anxiety (benzo substitute)

Recommended Posts

Just thought i'd drop in to let y'all know that afobazole (Russian axiolytic/anti-depressant) has really been really helping me with my anxiety (I have had HPPD & DP/DR since age 16. I am 31 now). It's great to not be worried about benzo's or pregabalin, trying to balance sporadic use with the risk of becoming addicted. Afo takes a few weeks to start working and it's subtle compared to benzo's (no muscle relaxtion/ inhibition/ sleepyness etc. it's not much of a tranquilizer). It can be stopped at any time with no withdrawals according to the research i've looked at. When I get a bit more time I will post some more in depth analysis and links to studies, but just for now i'd though id share this info with all my HPPD brothers and sisters out there in the world. Idealy I can just keep benzo's for the odd emergency situation.

 

Just for disclosore I also take Tianeptine 12.5mg 3 times a day (it's a mood brightener and a novel kind of antidepressent that doesn't seem to make HPPD worse due to not having the same Mechanism of action as SSRI's. I mainly take tianeptine in the hope of long term neurogensis/neural plasticity and to reduce the negative effects of chronic stress on the brain. (Living with HPPD and DP is stressful right?!) It can help with anxiety to a certain extent.

 

I also take;

B12 (methylcobalamine)
Vitamin D3 (sublingual)

Ubiqionol CoQ10

Krill Oil

Astaxanthin (anti-oxident)

Chelated Magnesium / Calcium supplement

 Vitamin K2

Phosphatydylserine

+ Chinese tonic herbs - 8 Immortals / Reishi Mushroom extract / Chage mushroom extract / Ginseng

 Sublime formula.

 

jeez it's a lot of stuff, no wonder i'm broke!

 

Cheers,

Luke

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently I was just discovered in July of this year that Tianeptine is a full agonist at the opioid receptor sites. I do very well with opioids but had to cut them out of my life. I wonder if this would make for a good replacement? Do you purchase online and if so where at?

 

Thank you,

Andrew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just order tianeptine on ebay. I used to have to import if from overseas as a generic medictaion but seems freely available as a nootropic substance now rather than being marketed as a prescription anti-depressent. Maybe Servier's patent has expired? It's actually been around in France for decades but not widely known until more recently. Afobazole I source from awakebrain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am going to order me some here soon off of ebay now! I wonder since they officially discovered that it works on the opioid receptors if it will be classified as a opioid? I mean technically it is. If so I wonder if they will soon put it under the same regulations as Tramadol where you need a prescription but it isn't illegal to have(at least in my state). Like you can easily get a prescription for Tramadol online and they will mail it to you but it is pretty expensive. Might want to stack up on the Tianeptine just incase. 

 

I also suffer dp/dr and am in a constant state of derealization and the depersonalization will hit me more like a attack but I haven't had one in awhile *cross fingers*. Do you get any relief with the tianeptine? And what about the Afobazole? Really it is odd, for me opioids really help my derealization. I was hooked on oxycontin and esp hydrocodone for a few years because it gave me relief. I still had my derealization but I never paid any attention to it while on opioids. I guess the good mood I was in all the time just took my mind off of it. This is why I am wondering if Tianeptine will be the magic bullet for me. What do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got Tianeptine off of Ebay and have been using for 2 and a half days basically now. I bought from the vendor who sells in powder form. I lost my 3ml syringe so really I have been just trying to eyeball the amount but I can say with certainty I have been taking about 30 mg dosages if not higher. I can't say I have felt much but also I have been EXTREMELY tired these past few days. I am going to finish this gram I have and then try to order it from a actually nootropic website to compare. I plan on making a solution of Tianeptine and just some distilled water and mixing it in a 30 ml container to where I have to just draw out 12.5mg and use it sublingually. I also want to try it with something like grapefruit juice because it is metabolized through the same enzymes that grapefruit juice inhibits. But as of now, I got nothing positive or negative to say about it right now. 

 

Also you mention you use it in hopes of neurogenesis. Have you ever thought about using it with melatonin? Buspar and melatonin are suppose to create neurogenesis which is why I would I mention melatonin. Or maybe even Buspar and Tianeptine? Not sure which it would be, hell why not just all 3! lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there,

 

good to read you've found something that helps.

Regarding your Afobazole use:

What's your dosing regimen?

How long did it take for effects to become apparent?

 

I have some from AwakeBrain that I never really gave a proper trial, so it's something I'd be up for trying again if I have a period where I'm trialling nothing.

 

Best wishes,

odisa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there,

 

good to read you've found something that helps.

Regarding your Afobazole use:

What's your dosing regimen?

How long did it take for effects to become apparent?

 

I have some from AwakeBrain that I never really gave a proper trial, so it's something I'd be up for trying again if I have a period where I'm trialling nothing.

 

Best wishes,

odisa

 

I know someone who has just started taking afobazole after I told him that someone from here recommended it and he says he feels pretty good after the 3rd day. He started off at 10mg 2x a day but tried 10mg 3x yesterday and said it made him foggy. I think that is a pretty common side effect until you get use to it. Supposedly it takes 4 weeks for peak effects so I am going to say a few days to a month until you actually feel anything. 

 

Hope this helps if Void doesn't make it back for whatever reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys,

Yeah regarding the dosing of Afobazole, I just followed the recommended dosing of 1 pill taken 3 times daily. I do believe it takes 2-3 weeks before any consistent anxiolytic effect is built up, peaking at 4 weeks. My plan is to try it for 3 - 6 months, then taper off it over a few weeks. I don't believe there are any withdrawal effects like people experience with benzos. It seems to reduce anxiety but totally different mechanics of action in the brain. It is not really a sedative / tranquilizer like a benzo class of substance.

 

Other questions;

 

Tianeptine isn't really an opioid - it it technically classed as a Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Accelerator (SSRE!) ie. it does the opposite of SSRI's in a way. It increases the re-uptake rate of Serotonin, rather than blocking the re-uptake of seotonin. I have read many articles on it over the the years, but due to the Hppd/dp fuzz my working/long-term memory is never that much to rely on. Basically no one quite knows for sure  how it has it's mood brightening / anti-depressant effect. Usually down stream effects are cited, not the direct mechanism of action.

 

Andrew; most people at first get a mild euphoric buzz from tianeptine (that is powder take orally at 12.5 mg 3 x daily), but after a while this can pass. I'm really in it for the long term neurogenesis / neuroprotective effects that seem to come from continued use. (To be more accurate it seems to restore healthy neurogenesis in people with abnormal brain function ie. depression, anxiety etc..)

 

Here is an extract from a 2010 study on tianeptine 

 

Considerable progress has been made in describing the physiological and behavioral sequelae that
result from depression, but the specific factors responsible for its development and maintenance are
not well understood. Investigators have utilized animal models of stress effects on brain and behavior
to develop a better understanding of the neurobiological basis of depression, which could ultimately
produce improved treatment options for the patient. We have reviewed the findings of preclinical
research demonstrating that tianeptine prevents the deleterious effects of stress on physiology and
behavior. Tianeptine prevents chronic stress-induced morphological changes in the hippocampus and
amygdala and blocks the effects of acute stress on synaptic plasticity in the hippocampus and PFC. We
have also reviewed findings demonstrating that tianeptine has procognitive effects. Tianeptine
enhances hippocampus-dependent learning and memory and prevents the stress-induced impairment of
such processes. Tianeptine’s prevention of the adverse effects of stress on brain and behavior is likely
to contribute to its effectiveness as a treatment for people suffering from depression.
Tianeptine’s antidepressant effects appear to involve modulation of glutamatergic
neurotransmission, which resonates with evidence implicating abnormal glutamate activity in the
pathogenesis of depression. Cellular, molecular and electrophysiological studies have shown that
tianeptine prevents the stress-induced rise in amygdaloid glutamate levels and blocks stress-induced
changes in glutamate receptor currents and glutamate transporter expression in the hippocampus.
Moreover, tianeptine potentiates AMPA receptor function, as demonstrated by increasing
phosphorylation of the Ser831 and Ser845 sites on the GluR1 subunit of AMPA receptors in the
hippocampus and PFC. These latter findings may explain why tianeptine enhanced long-term (24-hours)
hippocampus-dependent memory retrieval (as reported here) and, more generally, how it facilitates
synaptic plasticity in the hippocampus. Other research has shown that tianeptine has anticonvulsant
properties, which appear to be based on its stabilization of glutamate levels in conjunction with
adenosine receptor activation.

In summary, tianeptine is a well-described antidepressant with effective actions against stressinduced
deficits of the nervous system. It is as effective as SSRIs in treating depression, produces
fewer adverse side effects and reduces anxious symptoms associated with depression without the need
for concomitant anxiolytic therapy [18–21,207]. It is therefore relevant to note that tianeptine has been
shown to ameliorate symptoms in people with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) [208] and in
recent work has been shown to block the effects of intense stress on behavior and cardiovascular
systems in an animal model of PTSD [100]. Thus, the well-described antidepressant and memory
protective properties of tianeptine indicate that, in addition to its effectiveness as a treatment in mood
disorders, it potentially has broader applications, as in the treatment of anxiety.

 

Link: www.mdpi.com/1424-8247/3/10/3143/pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone asked about the severity and nature of my anxiety. I have mild-moderate base level anxiety due to HPPD I suppose, I also experience mild/moderate agoraphobia and social anxiety. I'm not sure to what degree that is caused by the HPPD, or indirectly due to the DP/DR sensation or the way that HPPD has impacted my whole personality and life (socially, financially etc). It's understandable that a person would feel more comfortable at home if there are experiencing HPPD/DP/DR, as it is easier to control that environment and feel safer.

 

The main effect I have noticed from Afo is a big reduction in the kind of creeping anxiety (though and feelings) that would sometimes feel like it was going to spiral out into a panic attack. I used to hate that creeping paranoid anxiety, it would eat away at me and make me feel like I might lose control or go crazy. I still have some base-level of anxiety but I luckily (so far) seemed to have lost the panic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

andrewcb;

 

regarding opipod receptor activity - I stand corrected!

 

"Tianeptine research was revolutionised in July 2014 with publication of the unexpected discovery that tianeptine is a full agonist at the μ and δ opioid receptors with negligible effect at the κ opioid receptors.[9] Selective μ opioid agonists in the brain's "hedonic hotspots" typically induce euphoria.[10] Selective kappa agonists typically induce dysphoria. The role of central delta opioid receptors is poorly understood. Dual activation of the mu and, less potently, the delta opioid receptors may be critical to tianeptine's mood-brightening and anxiolytic effect - a therapeutic action seemingly unaccompanied by the physiological tolerance and dependence that have plagued traditional opioids. Previous research into tianeptine may need to be re-evaluated in this light."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Painting,

Yeah it is a real recent discovery, I doubt there is much activity though. Also I wanted to thank you! I am fixing to order some Afo myself, been busy trying other supplements but plan on ordering tomorrow. On another forum(a forum unrelated to HPPD or anything) we are discussing nootropics and the sort and 2 people on there have started using Afo and Tianeptine since. They used the Tianeptine first and have just more recently been using Afo but so far it seems they both like it. One guy says it gets better and better everyday. I believe he is 6 days in and 1 pill 3x a day I believe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Painting; Appreciating your writings! Would love to hear more details on your afobazole experiences :) (I realize that I'm pretty much just repeating my post from Sep. 17th :P )

I ordered some yesterday so it will be here next week. Will definitely keep you informed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

eh.. the way everybody always boasts about what they have ordered and says they will inform of the results.. and the results never come :(

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry dude but Tianeptine is a potent Mu-Opioid Receptors agonist
Its antidepressant effect is directly linked to this mechanism and some glutamate modulation
The SSRE effect has not be proven to be responsible for the antidepressant effect

I believe you found out about tianeptine being an opioid drug the hard way since 2014 ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • By Allen85
      Hello All, My name is Allen. I've browsed this site randomly over the past couple years but was afraid share. I'm in my 30's and have had HPPD 2 for 18 years. I was diagnosed 5 years ago after a seeing countless doctors through the years. Recently I found out my wife was pregnant and I became determined to find a treatment or, god willing, a cure. When I was in my mid teens I took lsd about 5 times and I was a chronic marijuana smoker. The last time I took lsd I smoked weed at the same time and I had the worst experience of my life: My heart began to race uncontrollably, my arms and face became numb; I saw long blury trails on everything and I felt hot and cold all at once. It was so intense that I thought for sure I was going to die. In desperation, I curled up in a ball on my couch, closed my eyes, and began to pray to god repeatedly to make it stop and let me live, until eventually I fell asleep. I woke up the next morning and thanked god I was alive. I swore of lsd forever. Unfortunately that didn't stop me from trying to party with my friends as usual. Every time I smoked weed after that I would have severe panic attacks and almost black out. When I'd drink alcohol I felt like I had a lump in my throat and couldn't breathe. A couple weeks after that horrible trip I woke up to a dull version of the same type of visuals I had the night of my bad trip, I was petrified and began having random panic attacks. I finally told my mother what I did and what happened since and she took me to the doctor. The doctor swore it was depression with anxiety and completely dismissed any lsd involvement. She prescribed me Effexor and xanax. The effexor didn't help at all and it made my heart race. The symptoms were not going away. I was afraid I damaged my brain beyond repair. Shortly after I withdrew from school and became a hermit. The xanax helped a lot with anxiety but the visuals remained. Through the years I saw about a dozen different psychiatrists and none of them knew what was wrong with me and continued me on benzodiazepines and ssri's. I lost my insurance and couldn't afford all the doctor appointments and medicine, so I began getting zoloft and Vicodin off the streets to self medicate. Eventually the visuals became less intense and my panic attacks were less frequent. Although the visuals and anxiety are a part of my daily life, I still manage to function. Some days are worse than others but I forced myself back into society and I got a good job in construction, and married my girlfriend who has been with me through this whole experience. I got off the vicodin with suboxone and continued the zoloft. With the news of our first child, I found a new determination to get rid of this horrible disease for good. I told my doctor that I wanted to try anything we can to make this stop and she agreed to start prescribing me different medications to see what, if anything, will work. She prescribed clonidine last visit and I started it 6 days ago. Unfortunately it hasn't helped my visuals at all and last night I began having strange thoughts and seeing weird images when I closed my eyes. I'll keep everyone updated on how it goes. I'm really hopeful that something will get rid of this for good. Wish me luck and good luck to all of you.
      P.s. I am thankful to whomever started and maintains this site. I hope we can get this horrible disease more attention and find a real treatment for it.
    • By facesofhppd.com
      June 11, 2019 
      SUBJ: Faces of HPPD Survey/Research Published – RESULTS!
      Dear HPPD Online Community:
      As a mom with a grown son with HPPD, I was so fortunate to come across this forum several years ago for information and support.  David Kozin, who runs this board, is an amazing man to have created and maintained this website and kept up his work/studies over the years – all the while suffering with HPPD.  I would like to thank him for this platform, and well as thank those of you who participated in the survey that I launched four years ago to collect data about individuals who had received an official diagnosis of the disorder.  
      Fast forward…. Here it is June 2019.  Long overdue for the published report, however, I lingered – always hoping to gain a larger sample of subjects.
      I am fortunate to have a PhD in psychology, experience in research, and a heart to try to make a difference. Instead of publishing a book, it only made sense to get the results in the hands of the scientists and medical professionals through scientific writing. I am so happy to tell you… the peer-reviewed medical journal, Addictive Disorders & Their Treatment, published by Wolters Kluwer publishers, has reviewed and accepted my manuscript for publication in an upcoming issue.  Last week the article completed rounds of publication editing and formatting.  The article is posted at their website for advance release.  
      Lewis, DM, Faces of HPPD: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder Patient Survey Results and a Descriptive Analysis of Patient Demographics, Medical Background, Drug Use History, Symptoms, and Treatments.  Addictive Disorders and their Treatments. Forthcoming 2019. 
      The link is here: https://journals.lww.com/addictiondisorders/Abstract/publishahead/FACES_OF_HPPD__Hallucinogen_Persisting_Perception.99733.aspx     
      (NOTE:  This direct link will change probably in a month or two when the article is given a print-issue date – right now, it is advance copy, undated.  In the future, you can search the article at https://journals.lww.com/addictiondisorders/ .
      While the article is available for immediate download, many of you know that publishers charge money for copy downloads (this one is $49), and authors cannot give away their copy. This, I know, is not a good thing for some within the community who do not have the funds.
      However (here’s the good news 😉), I contacted the publisher and obtained permission to publish a summary of the results (the important data!) and I created an infographic that provides you all the results.  I am including it here as a .pdf file, attached. It’s reader-friendly, and I hope it provides insight.
      I want to mention some findings that particularly concern me:  the high rate of suicide ideation (among other co-morbid psychological/psychiatric symptoms reported), and the significant number of individuals who reported being unable to work due to HPPD.  I feel strongly that HPPD needs recognition as potentially disabling – and I believe there are some individuals who may need government assistance (eg, Social Security Disability benefits).  My future work leads me in the direction of carving a path for HPPD as a qualifying mental disorder for eligibility for assistance. I will keep you posted on that.
      Again, thank you so very much for those who partook in the survey.  
      My best wishes to each of you for good health and peace of mind, 
      Doreen M. Lewis, PhD
      https://www.facesofhppd.com
      https://www.vellichorresearch.com 


      Faces of HPPD Infographic - LEWIS.pdf
    • By Meltedface
      Hi, I'm new to this forum
      My condition started 1 year ago when I snorted 60mg of 2C-B, that night I had a horrible bad trip that ended in a panic attack and a visit to the hospital
      since that day I have anxiety problems, but I never had HPPD, visual snow, depersonalization / derealization, so I consider myself lucky !!!
      my symptoms have been more like traditional anxiety: chest pain, insomnia, fear of dying, muscle twitching, racing thoughts, nightmares, myoclonus (jerking when trying to sleep), shortness of breath, panic attacks the first few months...I think I have some form of PTSD caused by this bad trip
      I've been sober for almost 9 months and the only symptom I have now is muscle twitching (like fasciculations)... it's not a big deal, so I have a pretty normal life to be honest, I cannot complain.
      but if I drink alcohol/caffeine my anxiety increases the following days, and some old symptoms return.
      So I was wondering how bad it would be get drunk once a month and cut the anxiety of the following days with clonazepam? 
      (I can handle 2 beers without problem, but if I took more I may have some anxiety problems the following days)
      What do you guys think, is not worth it?
      Can my condition evolve into HPPD just because of alcohol?
    • By Victor666
      Hello guys, it's been a year since i had the same problem as you. Always exactly 1 year I took 150ug of LSD and had a terrible bad trip that traumatized me and left me sequels. I had flashbacks and I missed a lot because of it. Distorted visions in my peripheral field. All this was cured with antipsychotics, especially risperidone (I can not remember the dosage). But what it took to be cured was the emotional sequel that caused me. Psychedelic experiences transform you radically and unfortunately if you are not prepared for them it may take a long time for you to get back on track and I confess that I am not yet 100% healed of this trauma. But what I can say to you is that the worst of all this is not the visions, but the horrible thoughts that go through our heads thanks to the anxiety that causes us. And what I want to know about this post is just that. What are the thoughts that torment you because of this anxiety? Write them in the comments and we'll help each other by talking about them. For example, I used to think all the time that I was getting schizophrenic, that there would be some outbreak, over time this evolved into existential crises where I thought my soul was lost in space time and I was not living reality, just watching it (depersonalization and derealization helped in this).
    • By therocknamedwonder
      Ever since I've developed HPPD, I've noticed that my dreams have become much more vivid and just overall... strange. I've always had vivid and memorable dreams, but nothing like this; I'm dreaming multiple dreams a night that are all distinct and just... odd. They seem to have no basis in reality and are very very bizarre, often having nightmare undertones. Is anyone else experiencing this symptom? If so, have you found anything that gives you relief? please let me know, as it causes me immense anxiety before going to sleep /:
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.