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Missjess

Bad reaction to neurofeedback session..

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Hey guys,

So I went to my first neurofeedback session on Wednesday and it's been 3 days since, I trained for like 6 minutes in the first session. The following is what I experienced:

When I went to drive home I felt disorientated, spacey and tired. When I got home I went to lay down for a while and then later on I experienced extreme agitation, I felt really angry, I had bouts of mania, I felt extreme boredom. I also didn't manage to get a restful sleep that night, then the next day I still felt spacey and dissociated...it's like my body is slow to follow what I wana do

It's now Friday and I'm still experiencing this awfull feeling of slackness and disorientation!! My doctor thinks we need to train for less the next session and that because of my injury it may take an adjusting period to the therapy. But fuk that I don't wana have anything more to do with neurofeedback!!! I hope this fuking space ess feeling goes away coz I can't fkn do shit!!

Has anyone else done neurofeedback before and experienced what I have ??

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I dunno he put the sensors on my head and made me watch the screen...we were training my alpha waves

I believe in triggered my hppd to get worse and I went backwards

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I am sorry that happened to you. Hope it'll go away. Its very interesting information and perhaps there is a clue to what parts of the brain that can/should be trained.

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Well the thing is the socialist was training the right waves and everything but i just think that my case of hppd I cannot seem to take anything, no meds, supps they all set me bsck or make it worse

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Jess, now you have me wanting to converse with you even more. I just posted on your thread created about your video. Anyhow, biofeedback and neurofeedback is something I've been experimenting with and researching for the past couple months, and may even get certified in. Let me first say that not all neurofeedback is the same, yet many people think it is, or at least think that it's okay to "up train" or "down train" certain frequencies in certain regions of the brain, and that is all it is. This is false. 

 

Do you know what protocol your neurofeedback practitioner is using? Do you know what technology or software they're running? Are they asking you to do anything while you have electrodes on?

 

Recently I did some work with a professor at a university in my state and a leading researcher of the brain research center out of that university. Her name is Dr. Lori-Russell Chapin. Her and her husband wrote a book on neurofeedback, and are 2 of 4 people utilizing Theta-Alpha-Gamma Synchrony training in the U.S. (perhaps the world?) - one of the most revolutionary protocols in not only neurofeedback, but neuromodulation in general. I also worked with one other neurofeedback clinician prior to this, and am going to consult with one more who in fact has invented some new technology and protocols himself.

 

One thing I'd like to point out is that, when reading the research behind neurofeedback, temporary adverse reactions are common in people with deeply rooted problems. I have experienced these first hand. Some with PTSD even had flashbacks and hallucinations, but with further training, not only were cured, but had better cognition than their pre-PTSD baseline. Anyhow, QEEG-driven neurofeedback is sub-optimal. TLC7-assessment directed neurofeedback is where real results come from, and after that, one can do some extensive protocols designed for glial cell functioning, neurogenesis, etc. TLC7A's are an extensive look into your brain functioning compared to your own brain, whereas a QEEG compares your brain to a database of "normal brains". Changing your neurofeedback practitioner may be needed, but truthfully, saving up the money and running a TLC7A and doing personalized neurofeedback with consultations with Peter Van Deusen or Douglas Daily would be optimal.

 

Anyhow, I recommend looking into:

- a TLC7 assessment, done at home, and TLC7A-directed individualized neurofeedback, which minimizes negative effects and maximizes results, far beyon what any QEEG-driven neurofeedback could accomplish

- TAG-Sync, or Theta-Alpha-Gamma Synchrony, which causes massive neuronal changes in the Default Mode Network among other areas, similar to what occurs in people who have meditated daily for decades, and affects the neuro-physiological causes of negative emotions and senses directly

- BiPolar Montage neurofeedback

- Ultra/Extremely Low Frequency Neurofeedback

- Slow Cortical Potential Neurofeedback

- near or passive infrared hemoencephalography (pIR/nIR HEG) neurofeedback, which directly treats hypofrontality, something that largely occurs in schizophrenia 

 

For further reading:

 

TAG-Sync (Douglas has multiple sites, this is the least extensive explanation of TAG-Sync, but is a good intro)

Pete Van Deusen/Brain-Trainer

TAG-Sync experiences on longecity (the creator of this thread has spoken to me frequently in the past, all I can say is, in terms of his language online, he seems like a completely evolved, extremely efficiently functioning individual, 100% due to his use of TAG-Sync, and he was a healthy individual prior to using it...)

 

I'd really like to describe some of these things, and others, to you in more depth. 

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Oh, by the way, there is a yahoo-neurofeedback group, and both Pete and Douglas post there. Douglas has made posts there that rival the information he posts on his own websites, and truthfully, the man is a genius. He's found ways to take people who had adverse reactions to neurofeedback, or who were "non-responders", and get them to respond favorably. Not only this, he's found ways to combine tDCS+neurofeedback to enhance one's neurofeedback session, and additionally, how to do acupressure/acupuncture at specific points alongside TAG-Sync and meditation to directly alter the Default Mode Network and get people to have very therapeutic sessions in short amounts of time.

 

Anyhow, I posted on the yahoo group long ago about my problems, my research, etc. A man with similar interests started responding to me, and coincidentally, his interest in neuro and biofeedback was caused by substance abuse-induced brain damage, including PCP (which is one of the compounds I attribute my HPPD to). He has used the TLC7a approach to neurofeedback and stated that it completely changed his life, whereas other forms of neurofeedback made him more anxious, dissociated, etc. furthermore, he has even better cognition now than before many of his problems, and has thus started to use nIR HEG concurrently with the TLC7a approach. Gonna re-start my nIR HEG training very soon. Can't wait. 

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I have read that when rehabilitating your mind with mindfulness techniques, you can provoke adverse reactions initially, as you say with neurofeedback, BPC. The point of these techniques is to rewire the brain, which could indeed contraindicate the bad wiring HPPD sufferers have.

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Several years ago tried neurofeedback.  It involved a 4 probe EEG, a screen and headphones.  Had to eventually stop as things started to get worse.  The 'instructor' kept saying "you're a very strong person".  Finally asked why and was told that normally "a person with that level of wave activity would be hanging from the ceiling screaming ... and better get some meds" as it is a serious problem.  Couple weeks later got Gabapentin.  Haven't tried feedback since.

 

Well, that's my feedback, ...

  • Upvote 1

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I had very similar reactions initially. I first did a NeurOptimal neurofeedback session, and during it I felt very peaceful and extremely happy. The rest of the day I was extremely in tune with things. The next day I was in a state of constant fear and panic beyond what I would even normally feel. I basically just laid down the entire day fighting back the sensations of a nervous breakdown. The following days things got better. The woman was very kind and kept insisting I come in for a quick session for less or no money so she can check on me and make sure I'm not suffering. 

 

Anyhow, this is what led me to Dr. Lori-Russell Chapin. I did SMR-neurofeedback (sensory motor rhythm). During the sessions I literally felt a state of orgasmic bliss wash over my body. I had tactile sensations in my face/behind my eyes akin to what I've experienced with marijuana edibles after a long "tolerance break". The next day I felt more anxious, again, but much less so than my initial experience with NeurOptimal. After my second SMR-session, I felt even better and even started writing music/lyrics and studying again; the next day I felt more anxious, but I was also more capable of handling the anxiety, and with proceeding days I felt better than my HPPD-baseline.

 

Anyhow, Dr. LRC was about 3 hours away from my home, charged really large amounts of money, and her personality didn't mesh with mine. I decided to stop seeing her after these sessions and get a nIR HEG device from brain-trainer.com along with the "LIFE game" to open focus, closed focus, and the ability to intentionally switch between open and closed focus. I haven't really used it because I've found that other issues, such as Lyme and biotoxins, are increasing my HPPD symptoms, and it doesn't seem plausible that neurofeedback will address those problems directly, and that any negative experiences I could potentially experience with NFB is from these infections. So, I plan on addressing these issues, along with diet, first, and then working my way towards increasingly immense amounts of NFB, particularly nIR HEG and TLC7a NFB. I have been doing biofeedback, though, for about 5-10 minutes a day, and will soon be adding Tai Chi into the mix. 

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BigPapaChakra

Im sure ur research and knowledge is very well referenced bit in my experience neurofeedback was not for me at all.

I did get the adverse reactions and they lasted 3 days and after that 3 days my perception disorder actually worsened and it hasent gone back to how it was before I started neurofeedback...so fuk that !! I seem to be highly unlucky in the medical and science field of recovery for my hppd.

The only thing that has worked for me is john of god everything else has fuked me up

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Several years ago tried neurofeedback.  It involved a 4 probe EEG, a screen and headphones.  Had to eventually stop as things started to get worse.  The 'instructor' kept saying "you're a very strong person".  Finally asked why and was told that normally "a person with that level of wave activity would be hanging from the ceiling screaming ... and better get some meds" as it is a serious problem.  Couple weeks later got Gabapentin.  Haven't tried feedback since.

 

Well, that's my feedback, ...

So did it ultimately worsen ur hppd visual ??

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Bump this. BigPapa seems pretty knowledgeable, but then through me off when he mentioned acupuncture. Please would you provide peer-review evidence for your claims? This is something that I have been trying to research here lately. 

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On 8/18/2014 at 4:26 PM, VisualDude said:

Several years ago tried neurofeedback.  It involved a 4 probe EEG, a screen and headphones.  Had to eventually stop as things started to get worse.  The 'instructor' kept saying "you're a very strong person".  Finally asked why and was told that normally "a person with that level of wave activity would be hanging from the ceiling screaming ... and better get some meds" as it is a serious problem.  Couple weeks later got Gabapentin.  Haven't tried feedback since.

 

Well, that's my feedback, ...

Lol. you probably are a strong person. HPPD is a bitch 

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