TULIP/LLLT for HPPD

[onedayillsailagain]

I was randomly checking Longecity and read that one person has had "largely reduced HPPD symptoms" after one session.

Just throwing this out there as a "before I forget" type of thing.

[wooshka]

Where can we get ahold of this? Is it similiar to NSI and requires a group buy?

[onedayillsailagain]

Wooshka I am not fully educated on the subject, far from actually. However I do know this is not a substance. I believe it is a form of transcranial light therapy. Thus, with adequate knowledge and materials, one can go about building and applying such a unit. I.E. it is something that needn't a group buy and that can be employed by one's own endeavors.

[BigPapaChakra]

Hey guys, what's up! Hope you're all doing well. I don't have much time for a very large post, but I promise I'll write in depth soon.

 

Essentially, TULIP, also known as The Ultimate Laser Protocol, has probably been the most effective thing I've done to help my HPPD. I would suggest you read my review over at longecity, thought it was done awhile back, it's still relevant. Things have gotten even better since then, and I have largely 'taken it easy' with LLLT (low level laser therapy). In fact, I've been taking a break from it for the past eight days as to establish some 'baseline' observations by taking my daily CP (buteyko breathing), doing duel n-back, lumosity, etc. then starting it back up. I originally took the HAM-D and HAM-A psychological analyses (for depression and anxiety symptoms), and I never even took them again because I felt much better.

 

I plan on blogging about this in the future, because I sincerely want to help everyone with HPPD (and associated symptoms/problems), because I have it, I've experienced it, and I understand how much if can affect ones life. No one I personally know can even understand because they haven't had the experience, and it's difficult to talk about it at times because I don't want to be perceived as 'crazy' when I essentially have a perception disorder.

 

I would STRONGLY urge anyone interested to go through the LostFalco's Biohacking Extravaganza thread at Longecity, along with some others. LostFalco is the one who got me into LLLT and I owe everything to him, he has truly changed my life for the better. I'm inquiring about collaborating on some blog posts with him about LLLT and how we can enhance the current TULIP protocol, and from my end, it would be largely about reducing HPPD and psychological symptoms.

 

I will post here later with a bunch of studies and observations, but here is the gist of it:

LLLT has been used for a long time, research on it has been going on for over fifty years. It primarily originated in 1960 with the invention of the Ruby Laser and the helium-neon (HeNe) laser in 61. I've found some fascinating information that dates back to before 1900 but it wasn't specifically for red or any wavelength of infrared light. Something I have to look into, though. I'm not too strong with the physics side of all this, which has actually lead me to want to learn math and physics (I can post some free courses and what not later), lol. The exact mechanisms of LLLT aren't fully established, but it seems as though the primary route of action is by the light being absorbed by chromophores in the skin, thus affecting Cytochrome C Oxidase within the mitochondrion and stimulating ATP production. It also modulates ROS and induces transcription factors. So, the primary factors here are the stimulation of one of the most fundamental aspects of life - the mitochondria - which produce chemical energy (although, I'm reading Gilbert Ling who turns modern biology upside down, and it seems as though ATPs only function may not be as an energy substrate), while also inducing epigenetic changes for the better. Other down stream effects seem to be enhanced CO2 retention (a good thing), increased oxygenation of the targeted tissue (as well as other areas), and increased regional cerebral blood flow (possibly one of the mechanisms behind its efficacy in depression and anxiety). There is actually a LOT more to this story, but I'm still learning, printing out a bunch of clinical studies and reading them when I get the chance. TULIP utilizes LLLT, but throws in synergistic mitochondrial supplements, the basic stack being CoQ10 (which acts as a 'donor' of sorts and is largely used up in different complexes of the mitochondrion), PQQ (which affects PGC-1a which seems to be the master 'switch' in mitochondrial and brown fat biogenesis), as well as Shilajit (synergism with CoQ10; acts as an adaptogen; much more but still investigating this). Other substances can be ones that affect the Krebs Cycle, ALCAR, R-ALA (K-R-ALA is better but I don't know where to find this), and much more. I have another large post on the TULIP thread about "TULIP Stacks", I think the Cori Cycle can be enhanced for the better of TULIP, as well, along with a lot of other whole-foods substances and supplements. Oxaloacetate seems to be a viable option, but I may be to young to experiment with that (only turning 19 this November).

 

I'll post here again some time tonight as I'm off to school in a bit. Hope you're all doing well!

[onedayillsailagain]

Thank you so much for replying!!!
Really tired and fogged up right now, so alas I've little more to add but a link to your review for others to read.
Other than that I look forward to your further contributions

^{Inviting @Syntheso to this thread.}

[BigPapaChakra]

Here is a study on LLLT with Traumatic Brain Injury: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3104287/ of course, this is a very, very small study; a case study. It is still relevant, and it shows the efficacy quite well - the participants were followed for years, not just a few days or weeks. The study hints towards acupoints being targeted as well. 

 

This is a study I just looked at on traumatic brain injury in mice treated with different wavelengths of red and infrared light: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3397203/ I think the discussion at the end is solid and a good read. 

"ATP is increased by LLLT and could prevent excitotoxicity. LLLT modulates many biological and disease processes increasing fibroblast migration, proliferation and differentiation, angiogenesis, and healing in ischemic heart and skeletal muscles, tendons, and bones. There are reports of beneficial effects of LLLT on functional recovery of injured peripheral nerves (780 nm) [37,38] and also of injured central neurons in the spinal cord (810 nm) [23,39]." (...) "The success of transcranial LLLT in these animal studies of stroke encouraged a clinical trial (NEST-1) in human stroke patients [43] in which only one transcranial NIR (808 nm) laser treatment at ~18 hours after stroke led to significant improvement. A second larger clinical trial (NEST-2) failed to meet its primary endpoint [44], but a subset of patients (moderate strokes) showed significant benefit [45]."

 

What I find interesting, is the researchers alluded to the fact that although certain wavelengths had no effect, that doesn't mean that wavelength won't have an effect if different parameters are used: fluence and irradiance play an additional, possibly equally important role, to the efficacy of LLLT. Every study needs to be looked at with that knowledge in the back of your mind, because each one can have significantly different results. 

[BigPapaChakra]

I'll post a whole host more in a bit. There are currently only five human studies on transcranial low level laser therapy, but there are tons of human studies on other applications of red and infrared light. Red light acupuncture has been used in depression models of humans as well. I believe there is something around twenty-seven studies in animals on transcranial applications. The primary research was originally used in healing tissue/skeletal injuries and problems, thus the research is just starting to roll in terms of brain enhancement. The Soviets were far ahead of the game as well, there is a lot of information on IR and red lights from fifty or so years ago coming out of Russia.

 

I'd also like to point out that I'm in no way, shape, or form the most educated and knowledgeable person on this topic. My topic of study was psychology, but I've started educating myself now in biophysics, chemistry, etc. Thanks to LostFalco from Longecity, I'm reading two highly fascinating books on biology and biophysics that are really helping me to understand everything. I plan on applying the whole 80/20 routine and learning the most practical information of each field. I would recommend people look into these books:

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Machinery-Life-David-Goodsell/dp/0387982736

http://www.amazon.com/Lifes-Ratchet-Molecular-Machines-Extract/dp/0465022537

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Sex-Suicide-Mitochondria-ebook/dp/B006QV7ZGO/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1383086062&sr=1-1&keywords=mitochondria

 

I'm reading these books with a skeptical eye, though, because Gilbert Ling's biological research shows a lot of biological research being done, as well as taught in schools, to be completely false. http://www.gilbertling.org/ and http://www.gilbertling.org/lp6c.htm I believe you can find his books for free on his site or one of the Russian sites dedicated to his work. I plan on also utilizing some of these sources to teach myself advanced biology and physics to better understand how to apply LLLT, because physics and math aren't my forte   http://academicearth.org/online-college-courses/physics/ http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/find-by-topic/ and more resources can be found here on the "menu" to the right: http://www.reddit.com/r/GetSmarter/new/?count=25&after=t3_rmqgm

[BigPapaChakra]

By the way, people can purchase LED units for very cheap. More expensive Lasers can be purchased, but I don't have any of those. Every wavelength, as well as laser vs. LED has their pros and their cons, but LED units are cheap and often not marketed for medical applications, thus are very cheap. The LED units I use were actually sent to me, and I never purchased them, but they are only around sixty or so dollars combined for the two units; one has 96 LEDs of 850nm, and one has 48 LEDs of 850nm. I think intranasal light irradiation would be the next thing I want to try, because I believe it would be even more efficacious than transcranial uses due to not having to worry about hair and skull depth, though you wouldn't be able to target all different brain regions such as the Reticular Activating System; intranasal light, from my preliminary studies, targets the midbrain/hypothalamus while also irradiating the blood when traveling up the nostrils.

 

I don't want to get too deep into this just yet, as I haven't done the research fully nor tried it for myself yet, but I believe by making use of special glasses that I've been trying out, with different sources of indoor lighting, you may be able to get red light into your brain via the retina, as well as heal and protect the retina itself. Here is a clue: http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20112004-22093.html

[onedayillsailagain]

Again; thanks for elaborating on this

I wasn't aware that this was a relatively cheap and easy intervention. Well cheap at least; not sure whether the method is complex or not.
Is there any page you can link to that has a "for Dummies" explanation, or some sort of condensed introduction? That said, I'll of course try to figure out myself.. I don't want this to come across as a spoon-feed-me request. I'll skim through lostfalco's thread(s) and see what I can find. For now what I've gathered is to apply the LED's to the scalp for 7 minutes every other day, areas F3 and F4. I do have a chart to measure that, so that shouldn't be too hard; though I'm aware there's more to it and that I need to know the necessary info before engaging in these experiments. As for PQQ and CoQ10; that should be the easiest.

As for retinal... I remember reading some warnings about that, though I can't exactly remember what it was.. Something to approach with an extra scoop of precaution I'd think.

Well, time for me to grind the gears and get reading I guess.

BTW man happy birthday; mine is this November as well (19 too!).

[californiaguy]

Big Papa Chakra can you provide links to amazon on what we should buy?

[onedayillsailagain]

Here's what I ordered

[onedayillsailagain]

Was going to keep an experience log at Longecity, but they seem to be having a lot of downtime these days.

Yesterday I did 1 minute illumination full-skull.
My sleep seems to have improved, and interestingly I did not wake up cringing in anxiety. Actually, I feel better it seems, which is appreciated considering it's my birthday. Though there's still a lingering irrational anxiety of "Jynxing it" by reporting this though, haha. Could be placebo still.

I won't comment any further, but so far so good and no adverse events noted.

I'm going to jumpstart this by doing 2 days on, 1 day off, for a week, and then do 1 day on, 1 day off.

[onedayillsailagain]

So I quit LED therapy after a few sessions. Not for adverse events, but seeming lack of immediate sufficient benefits (and it's quite the lengthy process once you get to the 90 secs/spot range), which I know is very impatient of me.

Thus, I've decided to resume again with the attitude of "If it doesn't help, it won't hurt".

Plan for now is to do 30 secs per spot full-skull every other day, and soon as I map my brain again I'll be doing 1 extra minute at F3, F4, Fp1, Fp3, O1, O2, Oz, and Iz. This in an attempt to save time (not that I don't have enough of that, but yeah). Idea is to have extra stimulation at frontal regions and occipital regions. I won't be able to attribute any benefits solely to LLLT (other plans in the making), but I figured I'll keep at it for 3 months and then have a week or 2 off to gauge responsiveness instead.

Brain mapping guide

[wooshka]

It will be interesting to see if this works for you odisa, do you think it could potentially be the equipment you're using? Maybe it's not enough, or substantial?

[onedayillsailagain]

The equipment is the exact same LED lamp others are using. Indeed length of sessions may have to do with it, but I fear my new baseline also interferes with noticing benefits. Lastly, it may take a few weeks to see results, so I'll just stick with it for now.

[wooshka]

Can you explain to me your "baseline" is that in regards to the level of your visuals, or also cognitive effects also? Been noticing any improvements lately? 

[onedayillsailagain]

My new baseline is much lower.. stems from the cocaine I did months ago.
Visuals are dramatically worse, as well as anything really. Dissociation and cognitive dysfunction is sometimes to a point where I can barely comprehend speech, let alone speak it. Anxiety is also very bad; fearing I'm losing my marbles most of the day. Subsequent result is depression.. Usually my outlet would be to keep thinking of something new; something that may help, but recently I can barely think, and as a result, can't devise a new plan of action so easily, making it all seem rather hopeless.

Alas; not much improvements aside from the relief from the observation that it appears that I am not psychotic, but in fact extremey deeply engulfed in my own bemuddled thoughts, a solopsism of sorts.

Anyhow, enough about that.. Gotta figure out how to fix it, right? Already tried Mucuna L-DOPA; which seemed to make it worse.. Don't know how else cocaine could make things this much worse, besides messing with dynorphin, CREB and KREB cycles and all that.. One thing I came across is that psychostimulants appears to cause neuroinflammation and BBB dysfunction, hence I'm trying some Curcumin (a different brand; supposedly the one I had couldn't cross the BBB and this one can) to reduce any possible inflammation.. If that helps I'll add some Magnolia Bark. If it doesn't; at least I can rule that out. I'm also receiving the Afobazol today, which would be my next course of action. Other than that there's not much I can do besides to wait, and the 'ole trial and error, I fear, and hoping NSI-189 will help. Though the latter is still a month or two away.

On topic:
Still LEDing.. no improvements I can attribute to it really, but like I said; I'll keep at it.

[wooshka]

I'm sorry to hear that as of late your situation has become quite more dire than it recently was. Maybe, hopefully, this is just another phase, and in a couple of weeks/months, you'll be back to a more *stable* self, where you can think a bit more clearly and devise a plan like you'd wish too. 

At least you're trying different methods, which is always reassuring to see and gives the rest(especially me) something to look forward too if it subsequently moves toward a more universal treatment. I believe this condition is a pernicious one at that, for what reason I am unsure of, but I do think that it's quite unfair to have the visuals accompanied with the cognitive dysfunctions. Do you have high hopes for NSI? It seems to have worked wonders for a number of people, but the same was said for Coluracetam, but unfortunately it didn't work as well as we hoped. 

What gave you the want to do Cocaine? Was it a spur of the moment thing, or did you think that it wouldn't hinder on the recovery of your HPPD, just out of curiosity, nothing more!

[onedayillsailagain]

Thank you wooshka; I do hope so!

 

 

Do you have high hopes for NSI? It seems to have worked wonders for a number of people, but the same was said for Coluracetam, but unfortunately it didn't work as well as we hoped.

Yes I do.. mostly out of despair I guess. Indeed the accounts so far seem rather inspiring, whilst others fail to note any benefit.. The thing is that a lot of people who pursue nootropics don't have any true problems; rather they are chasing the elusive NZT. Hence; they have no real problems to fix; they are less likely to achieve any benefits.

Indeed Coluracetam did seem rather hopeful.. perhaps I hyped that up too much myself, haha! Nevertheless.. what else to do?! Kind of running out of ideas lately. Back to shooting in the dark :/

 

 

What gave you the want to do Cocaine? Was it a spur of the moment thing, or did you think that it wouldn't hinder on the recovery of your HPPD, just out of curiosity, nothing more!

It was there on the table when I walked into a room.. Can't quite recall; just got fed up with nothing working and constantly waiting..  I knew it wouldn't be beneficial; but never did I suspect it this severely detrimental (for so long). Had my memory served me right; I would have remembered all the troubling experiences I have had with cocaine. Ah well.

[BigPapaChakra]

Hey guys, how's it going!? Just wanted to 'revitalize' this thread...

 

Has anyone additionally tried the protocol? How are you doing onedayillsailagain?

 

Personally, I took a LONG break from TULIP after running out of the supplements, over 6 weeks. My sever symptoms were largely reduced from 1-2 treatments every 7-10 days. My symptoms recently came back again, which is bad due to finals week, having to take placement tests, getting a new job, etc. But I look at this in a positive light - my symptoms were DRASTICALLY reduced while I used LLLT/TULIP, and took a month and a half to come back (besides the daily visuals/trippy crap, but everything else was gone). Therefore, I plan on starting up the treatments again, starting with 3x/week, then down to 1x/week and finding my minimum effective dose. 

 

There are a couple other things I'm trying and will be trying:

(1) CBD - this was sent for me and my ill younger brother. Going to be using CBD gum, Cibidex, and CBD Oil. I took some baseline cognitive tests, which were worse than they should've been due to a HPPD flare at the time of testing; plan on taking 10mg/day through the gum for about a month, taking the tests again, then using the Cibidex, and so on.

(2) PEMF: using the EarthPulse - Paul Becker sent one for my brother and I've been using it as well. My resting breath hold has increased quite a bit since using it for a couple weeks; I haven't gotten the main benefits of it because I sleep for so long and so well with it, and then I turn it on Alert mode and fall asleep again, thus waking up with odd brainwaves. My HPPD was bad today at school and I came home and took an hour and a half or so nap with the EarthPulse under a pillow at my skull on Air-Core setting (weakest field) on Recover Mode; woke up and my HPPD (besides visual snow and photosensitivity) was gone for a couple hours, then returned but to a smaller degree. I'm going to try to take more naps on recover mode, and stop messing with the setting after waking up and altering my brain waves.

(3) CO2: Breathing into a paper bag and using the BreathSlim. I may purchase some other CO2 increasing masks that are used for epilepsy (the CO2 stops seizures in 20 seconds) and use them, or get other breathing apparatuses but use them inside a paper bag to increase CO2

(4) Medical Baths with LOTS of sodium bicarbonate and magnesium chloride (found a soure of bulk mag. chloride as well as lots of foods and oils such as mct oil).

(5) I may possibly take up smoking pure, additive free tobacco - from preliminary research there seems to be health benefits to tobacco, and not just nicotine but the smoke itself. It's hard for me to believe so I need to do a lot of research and use some baseline tests (heart rate, body temp, body oxygenation, blood pressure, exercise performance, etc.) and then I may try it. I was thinking of looking for some tomorrow at the local smoke shops. I'd opt for a water pipe or hookah, but I'd be willing to experiment with personally rolled cigarettes.

 

Other things I'm interested in trying is bioavailable curcumin (with peperine or some form of phospholipids), Aspirin (affects prostaglidins, COX, prevents lipid peroxidation, etc.), and a bunch of other things. Incandescent bulbs are a cheap and useful source of orange, red, and near infrared light.

 

I have a question - what has been the single most efficacious and LASTING thing you have done or taken to reduce any HPPD symptom? Thank you.