Migraines

[nuroeone]

My hppd triggered with a massive migraine ever since then i get them quite frequently, everyday pretty much its a pain in the front of the head and temples and comes and goes when it pleases sometimes lasts days, I was just wondering what the best thing is to take for these monster headaches? Paracetamol doesn't cut it, paracetamol and codeine work i guess haven't really tried anything else.

Also do certain painkillers effect Hppd or worsen symptoms permanently?

[nepuinthesky]

read up about persistent migraine aura but you should stay away of Topamax this seems to be able to trigger these symptoms on its own.

[nuroeone]

I've read all about it, I initially thought when my symptoms first started that was what this was Persistent migraine aura without infraction. My neurologist put me on something similar to topamax called epiliem which is also an epilepsy medication around that time is when my ghosting started, no idea if that was the cause for my worsening visuals because i was still drinking alcohol at the time. It did nothing for me at all to make it better.

Really i just want to know what i can take for the pain of these migraines without causing further damage?

[nepuinthesky]

did you tried ibuprofen? seems that no one here had problems with it?!

but one of its adverse effects is photosensitivity but this seems to be very rare

As with other NSAIDs, ibuprofen has been reported to be a photosensitising agent.^[17]

However, this only rarely occurs with ibuprofen and it is considered to be a very weak photosensitising agent when compared with other members of the 2-arylpropionic acid class. This is because the ibuprofen molecule contains only a single phenyl moiety and no bond conjugation, resulting in a very weak chromophore system and a very weak absorption spectrum, which does not reach into the solar spectrum

i took it a few days because of problems with my shoulder doesnt seem to have an effect on my visuals.

but as for all analgesics, i would take them carefully and not every day.

sometimes it seems to be hard to get a diagnosis if there is a history of migraines and drugs

http://www.migraine-aura.org/content/e27891/e27265/e42285/e42442/e42444/e42630/index_en.html

but i think the mechanism is the same(only my opinion)

[VisualDude]

My hppd triggered with a massive migraine ever since then i get them quite frequently, everyday pretty much its a pain in the front of the head and temples and comes and goes when it pleases sometimes lasts days, I was just wondering what the best thing is to take for these monster headaches? Paracetamol doesn't cut it, paracetamol and codeine work i guess haven't really tried anything else.

Also do certain painkillers effect Hppd or worsen symptoms permanently?

Do your condition respond at all to Fiorinal?

Are your visuals tied with your headaches or are they 24/7?

[nuroeone]

Thanks for the info will look further into ibuprofen.

Fiorinal contains caffeine correct? i try to avoid caffiene as it makes me feel 'strange' think it triggers my dp.

I don't think these migraines effect my visuals but i do believe it is tied in with my hppd and yes they are constant. ill go to sleep with a headache and wake up with one with the pain returning throughout the day as it pleases sometimes the pain is mild sometimes it is intense and throbbing headache

[2muchmandy]

Im lucky I dont get migraines, but I do get head pressure and great discomfort that can last a while

[nifeBreer]

google

[VisualDude]

Thanks for the info will look further into ibuprofen.

Fiorinal contains caffeine correct? i try to avoid caffiene as it makes me feel 'strange' think it triggers my dp.

I don't think these migraines effect my visuals but i do believe it is tied in with my hppd and yes they are constant. ill go to sleep with a headache and wake up with one with the pain returning throughout the day as it pleases sometimes the pain is mild sometimes it is intense and throbbing headache

Classic migraine are vascular in cause. So caffeine in the Fiorinal constricts blood vessels to help relieve.

Fiorinal (and Fioricet) are 'old fashioned' meds (been around a long time). The are to be used at onset and during classic migraines.

For people that get migraines frequently, they use other meds that you stay on all the time to help prevent them. It seems that a lot of docs are forgetting about good old Fiorinal in less frequent cases and trying to put someone on something for life.

Your case with persistent headache is troublesome. However if you try and respond to Fiorinal, then you have a vascular caused issue - it could be useful diagnostically (and it sounds like nothing is working for you so far).

Do you get 'classic' visual symptoms - zigzag and blank visual areas? Since you indicate visuals are 24/7, it doesn't sound like classic migraine, but rather some other condition is the source.

[nuroeone]

Oh ok, well how would i go about obtaining fiorinal? Would it be an over the counter medicine? i'll give it a go.

My migraines have only sent me blind in my left eye once, it was the zig zag kaleidoscope thing which passed across my field of vision and took 30mins to come back, that was the day i believe my hppd was triggered. Other then that i constantly see an aura around everything (The aura symptom lead me to information about visual migraines) and sometimes i will have a blind spot in the corner of my vision, kinda looks like water trapped under plastic, i'm not sure how i would describe it.

[VisualDude]

Fiorinal is perscription in US (are you in US?)

Your description does sound 'classic'.

What does your aura look like? Is it like Halos see at http://www.visionsimulations.com/ ? Or can you find internet pictures to describe? [you can Google: aura migraine then click on images ]

[nepuinthesky]

Classic migraine are vascular in cause. So caffeine in the Fiorinal constricts blood vessels to help relieve.

@visual

i dont know but i mentioned the serotonine hypothesis of migraine in another thread. As far as iknow there are a lot of other hypothesis of the origin of migraine.

Also that a migraine is a vascular problem seems to be only a theorie so far.

there are afew diffrent types of migraine not only the classic one one is the bisilar-type migraine this one seems to be caused by a vascular problem for sure.

but the other types of migraine arent well understand today. maybe they are a vascular problem, but there a a few other hypothesis.

i also know that you dont give alot of the PMA thing but i believe that a migraine status can lead to the same problems and symptoms like HPPD. I think there are a lot of mediacal papers about this phenomenom

e.g.:

Liu GT, Schatz NJ, Galetta SL, Volpe NJ, Skobieranda F, Kosmorsky GS. Persistent positive visual phenomena in migraine. Neurology 1995; 45: 664-668

Relja G, Granato A, Ukmar M, Ferretti G, Antonello RM, Zorzon M. Persistent aura without infarction: decription of the first case studied with both brain SPECT and perfusion MRI

Schulz UG, Blamire AM, Corkill RG, Davies P, Styles P, Rothwell PM. Association between cortical metabolite levels and clinical manifestations of migrainous aura: an MR-spectroscopy study

there are a lot more studies

i believe if this would be only a vascular problem you would have a option to treat it.

maybe a migraine can do the same "damage " to your brain drugs can do.

i also believe that it is a form of synaptic damage which you mentioned in another thread if i remember correctly?!

but would this be a sign of the role of neurotransmitters in migraine???

[VisualDude]

Also that a migraine is a vascular problem seems to be only a theorie so far

It is true that most things are theory. Medicine, since the followers of Hypocrites started it (long after Hypocrites), has been based on keeping records of cases and essentially forming statistics. This type of medicine gained popularity since it had greater success than the mystics did.

The idea of probabilities is great since it will work quicker for most people. It simply makes good sence to work with shared knowledge.

As for migraines being vascular. I have family members (through marriage) with 'classic' migraine. They present as 'classic'. They respond to 'classic' treatment. Some of them have more than the usual amount of blood vessels - actually seen in MRI scans. So these follow the vascular theory.

Am not familiar with migraines causing progressive synaptic damage - but I'm hardly an expert here. Your post brings up good and important points. Usually vascular problems that cause damage are strokes and involve loss of blood flow (whereas 'classic' migraines are excessive flow or metabolism). Could excessive flow cause oxidative damage?

My concern with PMA is the danger of going down a potentially harmful path. Migraine was an early suggestion with me and detracted from the fact that I was being slowly poisoned - so I have permanent damaged from delayed diagnosis. I can't blame the doctors since my case is very unusual, but I'd be far more functional had I got correctly diagnosed early on.

It would seem that 'migraine' needs to be subdivided according to symptoms, labs (if any), autopsy (rather too late) and treatment response.

Nuroeone presents an interesting case. Definitley describes 'classic' migraine stuff (headache, temporary blindness, and spots). Yet suffers HPPD as well. Is it the same? Is it comorbid?

The 3 PubMed cases you present are interesting since some indicated blood flow (hypoperfusion) and "abnormal cerebral cortical energy metabolism". It is too bad they didn't describe symptoms clearly in the abstracts. The first one mentioned static and being untreatable. The second presented classic but persistent, on one side, and eventually resolved. The last seemed to say the least other than they could image it - but you can also image major depression and a number of other 'psychological' disorders. All used the term migraine in the text. [Am wondering, are there any cases of successfully imaging HPPD?]

Nuroeone,

I should ask, what makes your symptoms HPPD?

Had you used recreational drugs?

Did it start after drug use?

Do you have symptoms that are characteristic of HPPD (not 'classic' migraine)?

[nepuinthesky]

[Am wondering, are there any cases of successfully imaging HPPD?]

http://www.visualsnow.com/information/research/pdfs/abraham46-56.pdf

maybe this one?

but what would the qeeg show if a person diagnosed with PMA would do it. maybe the same? who knows.....

to understand these disorders alot more tests and comparisons have to be made.

there is an american doctor who seems to be able to see "Visual snow"(dont think that this is an independently disorder) in fmri.

look here:

http://thosewithvisualsnow.yuku.com/reply/50114/---LIVE-NEAR-WICSCONSIN--ILLINOIS-AREA-PLS----Medical-Colleg#.T5rXr9kuiSo

but he wont publish a study because he only saw one sufferer

its like looking for a needle in a haystick

[nuroeone]

Fiorinal is perscription in US (are you in US?)

Your description does sound 'classic'.

What does your aura look like? Is it like Halos see at http://www.visionsimulations.com/ ? Or can you find internet pictures to describe? [you can Google: aura migraine then click on images ]

No, i am in Australia. I will go to my doctor and see what they can do though about getting fiorinal.

Well the initial migraine was like the ones you see in google images zig zag that crossed my vision, i get the halos around lights as well and when my hppd first started i noticed an aura around words when i was reading.

http://hppdonline.com/index.php?/topic/805-introduction-my-symptoms-please-read/ < that is my introduction to the forum, it describes how i came about to realise i have hppd, a little bit of my drug history etc.

[nepuinthesky]

i also get halos and starbursts around lights. but never had a migraine.

i think its a symptome of HPPD aswell?!

seems that the only really migraine aura symptome which was never mentioned by a person with HPPD are these zigzag things?

[nuroeone]

The starbursting is a symptom of mine that has only appeared within the last 2 months, by far one of my worse symptoms. it is constant with a headache or without but i have noticed lately since the starbursts started my headaches are worse, could it be something to do with the constant flashing from the starbursts perhaps? Or stress of the constant visuals?

My headache seems to be gone now but know doubt it will be back, it was going for 3 days... the migraines/headaches i get now are not as severe as when my hppd first triggered ( Do not cause the partial blindness) they just last a long time and are quite painful. i still do see the wierd zig zag in the corner of my eye from time to time but it goes away rather then crossing my vision, i don't know its wierd

[nepuinthesky]

in the first weeks after i noticed the snow i also got a pain over/behind my eyes but not like a migraine. i was so concentrated on the visuals that i got phosphenes and pain behind the eyes, what always helped me was palming. 10minutes of it and the pain has gone seems to be related to the muscles of the eyes.

but these zigzags sound extremlly like migraine.

Do your visuals spike when the weather changes?

my starbursts are getting better i only have them with oncoming cars(only these new ones) but not so bad that they glare me. first i got them of every reflecting sunlight on parking cars, metallic surfaces and so on.

sometimes i have the feeling that lights only are to bright as my brain or eyes can see the whole bandwidth of light.

because all this disappears while wearing sunglases.

[nuroeone]

Floaters and snow were my first symptoms, i figured the first migraine must of fucked shit up in my head but then the after images started along with bad anxiety, took me a while to figure out it was hppd. I also get that pain behind the eyes sometimes but not as much as the pain in the front of my head and temples.

A cloudy day is great for me, less sunlight less starbursts, if thats what you mean by weather changes. Sunglasses did help in the beginning reduced the floaters, vs was more noticable but mine is subtle compared to what others have described on here( its only bad if i wake up in the middle of the night, its thick layer of black snow) My starbursts go right through the sunnys but it protects me from the after images a lot better. yeh reflections seem a lot brighter, if i squint i can see the rays of light coming straight into my eye, best way to describe it would be like a laser. i think this might have something to do with the ghosting i have.

[nepuinthesky]

i have exactly the same symptoms i also get these "lasers". mine started with visualsnow and afterimages.

with weather changes i mean some people with migraines report that they get an attack shortly before it starts raining for example.

my symptoms changed after i had stoped smoking weed.

first the snow was colorful now it is transparent (like a vibration of the background)

my afterimaes was mostly positive in the beginning now mostly negative

reflecting sunlight brought this starbursts now its like a bright "blob"^^

[VisualDude]

It really does look like you got both hppd and recurrent migraine from the party.

You mentioned temporary blindness in left eye and that static is worse in right eye. Is vision in the right eye worse than the left? Is snow still worse? Were you eyes basically the same before HPPD?

[nuroeone]

I've never considered that the issue of my migraines and hppd could be seperate. That may be the case then.

The temporary blindness only happened on the intial migraine that i believe triggered my hppd, lasted for about half an hour. I do get blurred or "watery" vision if something is in my eye, eyelash, dirt etc. it also happens when i have my sunnys on and they aren't clean my ghosting seems to increase a fair bit.

Yes, actually the right is worse then the left. I discovered this one day when i had double vision in the right eye for a whole day by alternating my left and right eyes closing one, opening the other.

Most of my ghosting seems to come out of my right eye and its a lot blurrier/ fuzzier. The snow is most intense in my right eye when i wake up and have had lack of sleep, its thick to the point where it actually looks like a television on an untuned channel but it always passes.

My vision was perfect before hppd, physically my eyes are still fine according to my neuro ophthalmologist, so it must be something to do with the drugs fucking with my brain.

[VisualDude]

It is great that the visual snow passes with time.

The right eye ghosting and different than the left is interesting. It tends to make one think some of the problem is signals from the retina are corrupt. Since the nerves from each eye separate according to visual field (not according to each eye), it seems hard to identify a specific brain area other than the thalamus.

The thalamus might be a place to look since many many nerve signals route through this small area. And since autonomic nervous system disorders seem to be involved - at least when there is dopamine involvement - again the thalamus may be implicated some how.

[nuroeone]

My headache is slowly coming back today. sucks.

That sort of flew right over my head lol, what do you suggest? I go back to my neuro or neuro op and get them to look into the thalamus? I try to avoid going to them as they don't really help much and cost a lot of money. i would only go back if its a definite solid lead on what the problem may be.

May i ask how you know so much? lol i've read many of your posts and you seem to be rather clued in like a doctor or something or do you simply just do your on research?

[VisualDude]

Well, the doctor probably wouldn't have any sort of thalamus test.

Sorry if what I said flew ... mostly thinking out loud. Your case provides valuable information (sorry, I don't mean to imply you are just a case ). Two things at the moment: migraine and HPPD from same cause. And right sided visual snow.

How do I know anything ... necessity is the mother of invention. And intense curiosity about things (particularly living things) is my personality. Getting such poor, flat, useless, and sometimes harmful response from professionals has been intolerable/agonizing. I've experienced enough in life to know that there are always solutions even if just partial or incremental. There is also a strong desire to help people. And finding that dopamine helped me isn't enough - I want to learn who else it helps and why others have no such need (a few get help from opposite types of meds).

As an example of what I do: With your info I started googling dopamine migraine (and various permutations). There is a strong dopamine connection with several HPPD symptoms (and no doubt you've read some Sinemet posts on this forum). Now I am learning that they are just discovering dopamine is involved in migraine. However, most common is to reduce dopamine (use a dopamine antagonist) in migraines. Whereas Sinemet increases dopamine.

So I see you have two conditions with opposite suggested protocols. So am pondering this. My gut feeling is that you would learn much by trying meds that influence dopamine - and I'd favor Sinemet over reducing dopamine. Perhaps Keppra would be good to try since it has some corrective action in some dopaminergic connections.

Thus I don't have much to suggest otherwise since the brain is stewing over this stuff and perhaps right now anything I might say is half-baked (so don't wait for me to try things, lol) But perhaps these thoughts will help and provoke ideas from other members.

I'm also embroiled in learning about the autonomic nervous system and its involvement with the brain (not just the body). And am also involved in learning how to use proteins and peptides to change gene expression, primarily those available in nutrition so us 'commoners' can use them.

So, I've got a strange hobby ... also like gardening