2 months new to hppd. snri?

[aztec99]

Hi, my onset was 2 months ago. Ive done 2cp once and it was a bad trip. Besides that m1 and e1 for about a year off and on. Also messed up my penis that night but that is another story. Anyway, I have a mild version. main symptoms are snow, after images, starbursts, halos. All visual.

I've learned to live with it.it is the least of my worries. I'm coming here for advice because my friends and doctor want to put me on an anti depressant. I said hell no at first because I'm trying to be healthy and recover from the hppd. She wants to put me on prestiq an snri. I have the prescription but am definitely having second thoughts. Anyone taken this in combo with their hppd? Im anxious that it will make it worse. No one believes me when I say it could make it worse. They just assume I have crazy levels of anxiety. But I've read anecdotal evidence that suggests ADs can make it worse.

On the other hand, I am feeling suicidal and need to try something because my current course isn't looking good. What should I try to get her to prescribe me?

PS klonazepam is out of the pic with this doc because she said it won't help with the depression

[aztec99]

I emailed Dr Abraham and he got back within an hour on a Friday night. Wow! Didn't expect that. FYI, He said there not yet a research link between SSRI and worsening of HPPD symptoms. That doesn't mean I'm safe. Hell, the drug they wanna give me is an SNRI. Completely different class. Not sure if ima do it or not.

[Jay1]

If you are feeling suicidal and hppd isn't your main worry, I'd try an anti depressent. I wonder if you should try one that targets both depression and anxiety though, like Lexapro? I know some people on here have found it to be an anti depressent that doesn't play too much with hppd.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Escitalopram

Good luck, Jay

[aztec99]

Thanks for the input. Yeah I read a lot of good things about Lexapro. I haven't made a decision yet. Gunna talk to my best friend one more time. But I'm leaning toward listening to myself and just staying completely sober and work on being healthy. I think that will be better for me and give me the best chance of possibly beating HPPD. I have a mild version and really didn't do a ton of drugs. So, I'm hoping I'm one of those cases that have a full recovery after a few months (only been 2 so far).

[Jay1]

yep, that is always my advice to new comers. My only concern was that you sometimes felt suicidal, if that continues... there is no shame in taking meds to help.

[John Smith]

Hahahaha howd you mess up your penis...sorry man but that was so random, i really laughed out loud. ANyway, i never had to take SSRIs, my depression only bothered me on and off for about 2 months, but i feel ya, that shit is tough to deal with. I took tramadol once which i think exhibits SNRI properties and it made my symptoms worse while i was on it so idk...id go with lexapro if thats what people here are recommending.

[VisualDude]

For what it is worth, Effexor (the 'parent' of Pristiq) was a rough experience for me. That aside, you can start with a small dose. If you find it intollerable, then you stop. The only real obsticle is that they want you to try these kind of meds for 2 months minimum. But if it worsens visuals, then it isn't likely to be useful.

Most quys would feel suicidal if they messed up their penis. If this and living with HPPD symptoms is the main cause of depression, then counseling is most important. Meds for depression are best for temporary 'emergency' use. But thoughout all this, you need to work with your doctors and not hang yourself (or whatever). Also, two months is new to this disorder - it usually takes some serious time to adjust to living with it while also trying to find ways to make it better.

Do you have friends and/or family to be around?

[aztec99]

How'd I mess it up? First of all, to everyone on this forum, if all you have is HPPD then feel LUCKY. Because I am the most fucked up person ever. Things can always get worse. Maybe this will make you feel better about your situation. I destroyed my pecker in two different ways.

Shit, I'd almost rather not get into it. Dealing with all this fucked up shit at once is too much for anyone. I did a shit load of drugs one night, mixing different RCs and what not. Ectasy, cocaine, ketamine analogues. They shrunk my pecker down to ridiculous level for like 50 hours. Shrunk so much that I couldn't even pee. When it finally unshrank, it was numb. Some feeling came back the next day but two months later i still have severe lack of sensitivity in all areas except circumcized area.

The second way is the one that is making me suicidal because its permanent damage I'm pretty sure. So after a lifetime of severe anxiety, worry, nervousness, laziness, sadness and general lack of taking any happiness out of life. I accidentally got hooked on these RC (research chemical) drugs. They are basically ectasy but one molecule off and were sold at gas stations. Sitting around feeling sad and lonely I decided there was nothing better to do than to mix all the devil's toys and before I knew it, I was jerking off on these drugs and watching porn for countless hours (more than one occasion). Eventually a few times, I went too long. I messed up my skin pretty bad and my pee hole became more open. I now basically have small lips on my penis. And when erect it looks nasty like a hole kinda. Not completely split but fucking ugly. Now sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night in pain because my erection hits my shorts or whatever. Kinda like having something inserted into the urethra.

I have told my best friend everything. But currently he's tired of being my pschologist, the couselors aren't enough, family is too distant to discuss, and work is getting harder than ever. Hell, I have so many issues that I can't even join group therapy. Do they have one for mutalating yourself? Pretty sure I have PTSD from looking down and see my pecker destroyed and realizing that I did it. With this level of fucked up shit, I believe that the only thing that can heal me is the love and grace of God. And I know he wouldn't want me to take my life and I don't want to do that to my family, so I'm hanging in there for now.

[John Smith]

Oh fuck man, im really sorry to hear, when you said you messed it up, i took it to mean something alot more lighthearted, like the anxiety had made it hard for you to get...um...hard, or somethin. Im sure youll regain feeling though, eventually.

[VisualDude]

Hell, I have so many issues that I can't even join group therapy I relate to this statement, and have stumped my counselors with this. It isn’t funny to live with, but it sounds interesting to read. Know you have made it this far. And it is good to hear that you are ‘hanging in there’.

Believe it or not, more people have ‘messed up their pecker’ than is generally known. That aside, focus on the positive. Yes, yes, yes … the old ‘glass is half full’. To start with, you CAN get erections – perhaps not at the times you wish (but that is actually rather ‘normal’).

The drug mix that miniaturized you for over 2 days must have been quite strong. But that doesn’t mean you can't get most of it back. And lots have people have diddled to porn to the point of changing their member. Drugs often numb a person’s senses so they don’t realize the full extent of what is happening. One fellow said that he was circumcised at birth but now has a foreskin from all his activity. Others have reported numbness problems from using vacuum 'enlargers'.

You need to change your viewpoint about your new appearance. Some people find genitals ugly across the board. Others feel quite the opposite. Many people have genital piercings, Prince Alberts, and wear heavy rings – these changes are irritating to the urethra and people just get used to it. Some people completely split open their urethra. [ See penile subincision http://en.wikipedia....ile_subincision ]

　

The first thing to suggest here is getting your life in order (if you haven’t already started). This includes good eating and sleep habits. Getting out around people. No more recreational drugs. Let your member rest. Limit alcohol (perhaps eliminate for the next couple months).

Some of the drugs you took work by overloading the dopamine system (such as cocaine). The combinations were also probably neurotoxic, raising havoc with your neurons. But your body wants to heal and you can help it.

Your numbness may involve some peripheral neuropathy. And for this (as well as for HPPD), I strongly suggest this simple dietary intake that helps to encourage nerve repair/growth with nutrition (the CNS loves this stuff),

~5000 mcg of sublingual methylcobalamin (B12) – 3 days on, 2 weeks off

~1000 mg GPC – 3 days on, 2 weeks off

~3000 mg MSM – 3 days on, do what you want the rest of the time

Take as one dose in the morning. This 'pulse' dosing works better than continuous use of them - especially B12. For GPC, the best I've used is a liquid form (1200mg) made by Crayhon Research.

Then there are more common things: Vitamin C, NAC, Vitamin E (mixed tocopherols), and a little selenium.

If you decide to try any of these, look for quality – which usually means it isn’t Walmart cheap.

The stresses you are under and these changes you are dealing with are huge and draw a person into excessive self-focus, just as panic attacks can ‘cripple’ a person. So making efforts to focus and help others will help with this. Since you have worn your best friend down, now try to build him up – it will help you both.

As strange as it sounds, you need to get used to HPPD, etc. I doesn’t mean giving up. Rather, it means not letting this nightmare dominate and ruin you – it is bad enough as it is. The anxiety just drives the pain deeper. As you get used to it all, then your energy can be directed both to living and learning how to enjoy life, and to finding solutions to manage these symptoms. There are always solutions, it is just that they can be difficult to find.

As for meds, I am a big proponent of dopamine boosting meds (such as Sinemet) and mild antiseizure meds. Whatever you try to do, just work with small doses and feel your way through it. Everyone is unique in how meds affect them. As you work with your doctors, you will build a history of what types a meds are useful and what are not. This, unfortunately takes time. Just keep pressing forward – your life will get better as you do. And know that people do care and will try to help, each according to their ability.

You have already emailed with Dr Abraham. Perhaps seeing him will help as well. Afterall, he is a HPPD researcher and apparently doing drug trials as well.

I realize that opinions are a dime a dozen. And advice doesn’t always fit. And even if it does, it is not necessarily easy. But hopefully this is helpful to you.

[aztec99]

Hi, thanks for the feedback. Don't have time to post because I've been working a ton of overtime trying to save my job. Will post this weekend.

[aztec99]

Thank you Visual. I've quit all drinking, drugs, everything. I don't even drink caffeine, soda drinks, choclate. And I've been eating organic foods. I'm determined to give my HPPD a chance to fully recover as well as my penis. As for supplements I have been taking L-carnitine, ALA, B12 (not sublingual), CoQ10 etc..... but I'd don't currently take MSM, or GPC. I'd like to try what you have suggested above. I see that they Crayhon stuff is expensive but i've got $$ so I'll try it. What lead you to believe that 3 days on 2 wks off is better than every day? Can you recommend quality name brand MSM and B12?

I'm hanging in there for now but these are dark days. Just wish I had my old penis back and could do things right this time.

[VisualDude]

For B12 you will need sublingual (since this is where it is absorbed - though you can use shots, but they contain aluminum). Also use methylcobalamin since it is the most usable form (there are at least 5 forms of B12)

As for cost, at least with the 'pulse' dosing, you don't use so much. Why do I believe in 'pulsing' ... mainly experience and based on the principle that when you megadose anything, your body counter-responds. With some supplements staying on high doses is actually harmful. I learned a few years ago about B12 for nerve damage from treating dogs that were paralyzed from disk injuries. I hate to plug brands but I use: Methylcobalamin from Klaire Labs, MSM from Vital Nutriants, Q-Avail and Ultra Gamma E from Designs for Health (learned the hard way with cheap vitamins).

Neurons in the brain and spinal cord cannot replace themselves but are capable of slow repair (as long as the axons are not severed like poor Christopher Reeves). Peripheral nerves can regenerate new neurons and do considerable repair. In both cases, anything that supports these processes is a plus. It may seem fairly slow, but as you are already addressing, a change in lifestyle is needed.

So after a lifetime of severe anxiety, worry, nervousness, laziness, sadness and general lack of taking any happiness out of life... this will be a key area to work with your counselors. While happiness is a personal accomplishment, there are many tools that help. Certainly anxiety is a life crusher. I have a similar history and it stemmed from childhood abuse. One thing that might help is that when you experience a moment of happiness (or any positive emotion), focus on it and see how long you can make the feeling last.

[aztec99]

For B12 you will need sublingual (since this is where it is absorbed - though you can use shots, but they contain aluminum). Also use methylcobalamin since it is the most usable form (there are at least 5 forms of B12)

As for cost, at least with the 'pulse' dosing, you don't use so much. Why do I believe in 'pulsing' ... mainly experience and based on the principle that when you megadose anything, your body counter-responds. With some supplements staying on high doses is actually harmful. I learned a few years ago about B12 for nerve damage from treating dogs that were paralyzed from disk injuries. I hate to plug brands but I use: Methylcobalamin from Klaire Labs, MSM from Vital Nutriants, Q-Avail and Ultra Gamma E from Designs for Health (learned the hard way with cheap vitamins).

Neurons in the brain and spinal cord cannot replace themselves but are capable of slow repair (as long as the axons are not severed like poor Christopher Reeves). Peripheral nerves can regenerate new neurons and do considerable repair. In both cases, anything that supports these processes is a plus. It may seem fairly slow, but as you are already addressing, a change in lifestyle is needed.

So after a lifetime of severe anxiety, worry, nervousness, laziness, sadness and general lack of taking any happiness out of life... this will be a key area to work with your counselors. While happiness is a personal accomplishment, there are many tools that help. Certainly anxiety is a life crusher. I have a similar history and it stemmed from childhood abuse. One thing that might help is that when you experience a moment of happiness (or any positive emotion), focus on it and see how long you can make the feeling last.

Will do. I've been through hell so I'm sooo ready to change and be uncomfortable and try different things like being positive.

Hey, do you take all three (b12,msm,gpc) on the same day or rotate? I know you said three days but is it all 3 items for 3 days?

[VisualDude]

I do them together. And take in the morning.

[aztec99]

Cool. I ordered the crayhon gpc, klaire b12, vital nutrients msm, and some high quality fish oil. I'm still debating on the antidepressants. I have a DR appointment next week. I might ask her bout Lexapro. I just worry that it could make my HPPD worse. But on the other hand, I'm really bad off right now.

[aztec99]

Yeah not only did I mess up my penis, develop HPPD...but after the last 'incident', I got sick a couple times and out of nowhere these little white dots started to appear on my lips. I looked it up on the net and it's called fordyce's spots. I never had them before. They are supposed to be natural and can just spontaneously appear. no cure nothing. What the fuck. Can anything else go wrong here? I mean really.

Anyway, Visual, what is your opinion on taking an SSRI? or a benzo? Dr Abraham said there is no evidence that showed that SSRIs negatively effected HPPD. My friends and doctors tell me to do it. My counselor says to take them because its better than suicide. I can't stand the thought of my HPPD getting worse but at the same time, i'm tired of crying myself to sleep every night.

[VisualDude]

Well, you've been major freaked out and stress will bring out more problems.

Yes, SSRI is better than killing oneself. However, they work by blunting emotions which has its own problem (depersonalizing). Many on the forum report problems but there are a few who claim benefit. Also, Lexapro might be easier (less problems) than an SNRI.

I am not a doctor [there - made the disclaimer]. The first thing to try is simple something to cut the edge off so you can get control of your anxiety. SSRIs are supposed to take several weeks to start working. A piece of Xanax will help panic anxiety in minutes. SSRIs are addictive (difficult withdrawals colorfully called 'discontinuance problems'). Benzos are too but if you use less than you want - just to cut the edge, they can be a godsend. If your doctor is willing to prescribe just 15 pills (0.25mg), it is easy to find out. And then just use 1/2 pill and see.

Did you ask Dr Abraham about Klonopin? Someone here indicated that he thinks it is a good med. You may wish to search the forum and read about Klonopin, lots of love-hate info. However, as you are so new to HPPD (yes, 2 months is hell but still 'new'), the simple trial of Xanax may be better start.

Tackling anxiety will be your top priority. Everything else will fall in place afterward. Since you have a lifetime history of anxiety, you have a big learning curve. But you are highly motivated and your counselors can help whether you take meds or not. Most anxiety is viewpoint in origin (the old, "glass is half-full"). So everything you can do to be around positives and even 'distract' yourself from these problems will prove useful. Various meditation techniques are also beneficial.

Hope this helps

[aztec99]

Damn, thanks for the advice. Sounds like you really know your stuff. I didn't ask Dr Abraham about Klonopin. If I tried anything, that would be it because I had read somewhere that was what he mainly liked to prescribe. Couldn't think of any other questions bout it.

I'd like to take something to take the edge off because I can barely walk around at work. My nerves are so shot that I tense up around people to the point of not being able to say a simple hello. If something doesn't give, then I may be fired before too long which may lead to suicide. However, I've decided to not take anything for 1 year. If I still have HPPD in one year and I still have major mental issues then I'll try some anti depressant. In the meantime I'll do as you suggest and tackle anxiety by every other means possible. Meditation, social exploration, group therapy, whatever.

Thanks Visual!

[Still_here]

Lexapro, or Citalapram as it is sold in NZ, is what triggered my HPPD, for what its worth, and on the side effects it lists halucinations.

I, and most others on this site no what its like to be more than just HPPD fucked up, I only wish I did just have visuals!

Takce care man, time heals all wounds.

[aztec99]

Thanks bro. That definitely helps my decision. What type of HPPD symptoms did you get from Lexapro? Are you implying that you got visuals and DP/DR from it? Wow, i didn't even realize people could get HPPD like visuals from ADs.