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Forgive me if I misunderstand or if this question seems impertinent - but are you doing this now? And if so, do you really want to get well again?

naah im not doin this now this is just from past experience, towards the beginning when i didnt know what was goin on

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naah im not doin this now this is just from past experience, towards the beginning when i didnt know what was goin on

Glad to hear this :)

The info was good though. It is hard enough to read medical texts on what they learn doing to rats (and I hate rats) let alone humans. But of course we all learn some interesting things from bad experiences.

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rollingregret, I went from 3.5 to 3.25 and I was shaking, unable to sleep and fealt like I was on a small dose of acid all over again for 1 month. After that full month, I stabalized and fealt just like I did on 3.5....Don't worry it just takes a long time. I was flipping out thinking it would never end but it does.

PPl w/o hppd have a hard time and quit working ect.. when going down 5mg of valium (which that is = to) just be happy if your able to sleep. Staying up all night feeling like you're going through opiate wd's 24/7 made me suicidal.

When you think about how long the half life (sp?) of klono is (around 72 hrs max) and you keep taking one after another on top of each other daily, it's going to take a hella a long time for our gabba receptors to reset properly.

Only 15% of ppl get permanant damage from benzo wd and that's after taking it for over 10 yrs at a high dosage (Dr. Ashton's words) take care, good job on getting down on you dose. I'll eventually be at 2mg and stick there till I die lol. Later!

PS. ppl always say don't take anything for wd's but clonidine and soma especially helped so much. Make sure you stay away from alcohol it hits the same receptors and will only delay your w/d process. Check out benzobuddies.org crazy amount of info

Thanks 98, that's very encouraging. I remember back last spring you were making that jump and I was coming down from 4 to 3.5 (at the time, knew very little about WD, just followed doctor's orders). At that same time someone spiked me with MDMA (it's all in another thread from back then, but you got me through the experience). Tomorrow will mark 1 month on this taper and right now, my neck muscles are pretty tight and I'm pretty spacey. Also, I have that body buzz. It's good to know that it just might take longer to fully stabilize. It's odd that sometimes I don't really feel it. I was at a club the other night and felt completely normal, no symptoms and I just had to keep telling myself, "you haven't stabilize, do not touch alcohol, you'll regret it". Then, of course, the next day (after correctly abstaining) I felt the WD start to creep up. Is the oscillatory nature of mild WD symptoms an indication that I'm healing (as Ashton would say) or that I'm very close to my tolerance withdrawal level (suggesting I still do have a "2.75mg's worth" of HPPD)? I'm also trying to minimize any serum level fluctuations by getting pills of whole dose so that I don't have to dry cut, just add up the right amount.

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Rollingregret, you're doing good. It's hard going to a club and staying away from drinking, better off just staying away. I used to go out and just talk to girls while drinking water. How I met my wife and many more ;)

Those neck muscles and just twitching in general, takes a while to go away in my experience (1 to 2 months at that cut). I think you're rather close.

Wish I didn't have to work every day so I could make another cut. Currently I'm trying to get off this tramadol shit. It's much harder then I thought taking 400mg for 6 months. I wake up in full opiate w/d's everyday till I take it. My fucking boss won't give me and days off so I could just could turkey it, so I just have to taper while working my ass off. Sorry for the complaing lol, just need to vent...anybody reading this ever have a problem getting off opiates?

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My visuals also decreased in severity. They were the same, but less intense and/or I didn't notice them much.

Hey rollingregret, hope all is going well with the withdrawing.

It seems like i have similar symptoms to you with regards to HPPD, I didn't really have major anxiety attacks as such, but did experience depression and anxiety over what i was now facing with life. I've been on Clonazepam for almost two months now, working my way up and now I've on 2mg a day dosage for about a month. So far i haven't had a huge decrease in visual symptoms. Although the intensity of the depressing thoughts I used to experience has decreased, I was wondering if you could remember how long into your treatment it was that your visuals became less intense?

I mainly ask as my doctor is allowing me 2 months on the 2mg a day dosage and as it's already been over a month on that, with continuing visuals, i am considering tapering off now and joining a ten day Vipassana retreat to help aid my recovery as people have said this has greatly helped.

If anyone else could comment on the same issue from their own experience, however brief their comment would be, I would be very great full.

Thank you all for any help

P.S alice-acid i am from the UK and if you are still on the hunt for Clonazepam, although my doctor is, it seems relatively relaxed i managed to be prescribed with the drug after about three or four meetings with him. All it took was some printed off research I found on a case study on how Clonazepam reduced the effects of HPPD over a two month period of taking 2mg a day. I can post the research I found on here if you would like and haven't already come across it

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Hey rollingregret, hope all is going well with the withdrawing.

It seems like i have similar symptoms to you with regards to HPPD, I didn't really have major anxiety attacks as such, but did experience depression and anxiety over what i was now facing with life. I've been on Clonazepam for almost two months now, working my way up and now I've on 2mg a day dosage for about a month. So far i haven't had a huge decrease in visual symptoms. Although the intensity of the depressing thoughts I used to experience has decreased, I was wondering if you could remember how long into your treatment it was that your visuals became less intense?

I mainly ask as my doctor is allowing me 2 months on the 2mg a day dosage and as it's already been over a month on that, with continuing visuals, i am considering tapering off now and joining a ten day Vipassana retreat to help aid my recovery as people have said this has greatly helped.

If anyone else could comment on the same issue from their own experience, however brief their comment would be, I would be very great full.

Thank you all for any help

P.S alice-acid i am from the UK and if you are still on the hunt for Clonazepam, although my doctor is, it seems relatively relaxed i managed to be prescribed with the drug after about three or four meetings with him. All it took was some printed off research I found on a case study on how Clonazepam reduced the effects of HPPD over a two month period of taking 2mg a day. I can post the research I found on here if you would like and haven't already come across it

Hey Nedd, thanks for your kind support.

Tbh, I noticed the visuals being decreased pretty much concomitantly with the decrease in my muscle tension, dizziness et al. As I said before, it's not that my visuals went away, it's that I just didn't care about them. I think that if your non-visual symptoms have dissipated, you should try (and believe me I know how hard this is) to just accept that your vision is what it is, but that you are now free of the truly debilitating features that are often the result of HPPD. At no point in the past 4-5 years (since I've been on clon) have my visuals "gone away". It's a lot like what people say about perception. The thing is, and I really do mean this, once you stop caring about floaters and static and seeing a straight line, it won't bother you. Now, there are different degrees. My visuals definitely decreased. Was this a function of not "linking" the feeling to the other symptoms or to their actual decrease. If I compare it to my current withdrawal, my visuals have increased in intensity proportional to the dizziness and muscle tension. I really think they're linked, and not so much independent. If the clon brings down your visuals by 50% and your other symptoms by 90%, you are lucky and it means it's working for you. Again, I'm trying to describe the phenomenon that the visuals "hurt" because other parts of your body and "brain" hurt. Focussing on visuals makes them worse. You probably know that. Clon allows you to forget about them.

What does the 2mg dose do for your other symptoms if you have any? Is it just visuals or are there other aspects to your HPPD that you would consider deviating from your normal state? If those haven't abated at this dose, you might require a higher one. This doesn't mean you are worse off than other people. I was on 4 for awhile with NO problems. It's just the dose you need (if it's the case). At 4 and even 3.5, my visuals were barely noticeable. Before, when I couldn't concentrate on a presentation at work because of all the crazy visuals going on, it was maddening. Now, no problems whatsoever (although during the WD, they've increased again).

The hard thing here is that your doctor is using an arbitrary metric of efficacy to determine your dosage. It's an unfortunate situation that you may want to address. If you can show your doctor anecdotal evidence (like this) that visuals CAN be controlled by clonazepam, but sometimes at higher doses, it might help. I strongly believe it is moronic for them to give you a dose like 2mg for 2 months for no specific reason. If they are worried about addiction, well that's already too long and too much. Like I said, it's so arbitrary, but if your doc is willing to work you up to the RIGHT dose, it would be the ideal situation for you IF you think clonazepam is something you want to take on. You will probably already have withdrawal coming off it now, but if that's what you chose to do, all the power to you. As for Vipassana, I'll just be blunt and say it did NOT work for me, but I can imagine that for others who have a better coordination between their body's state of relaxation and HPPD, I can see the merit. Just trying to give you my POV/what worked, etc.

BTW, I should say that going from 2mg to 4 mg after the first year and a half did significantly ameliorate my symptoms. Decide whether you're able to deal with the visuals or not. If you want to just live with them as you are now, probably get off the clon if it isn't helping. If you do want to reduce them further, my guess is that even 3mg might help. If it hasn't helped yet, it probably won't get better unless the underlying cause of your HPPD gets "solved" on 2mg. Keep me updated and good luck!

RR

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i was prescribed ativan from psychiatrist and ICU ER stays.. with 24/7 anxiety ur better off with a long lasting benzo like kolonopin or valium.. i currently self-medicate with 10-30mgs of valium when i wake up(depending on my mood from what to expect from the day) and i always have ativan around to use as needed...(meaning to to take during panic attacks)

benzos are very addictive tho, deadly addictive. withdrawl can kill :P tho ive gone cold turkey on benzos a few times.. i was getting daily kolonopin from one of my best friends for years, he died on aug 30th 2011 due to mrsa pnemonia so i was all of a sudden stuck without shit when i was highly useing 1-2mg a day for years cause he found no use for him with his schizophrenia... i suffered no form of withdrawl accept a rebound of more panic attacks then on benzos.. i started ordering overseas again and thats been worked out.. but some people suffer horrid withdrawl from benzos.

pdocs in the states ussually only prescribe benzos short term, expecially when they know you have a drug history.. but i had no problem getting them.

they really only work as a drug for a few weeks of daily usage, after that they still oddly carry an anxolytic effect but u barley feel the pill anymore.

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P.S alice-acid i am from the UK and if you are still on the hunt for Clonazepam, although my doctor is, it seems relatively relaxed i managed to be prescribed with the drug after about three or four meetings with him. All it took was some printed off research I found on a case study on how Clonazepam reduced the effects of HPPD over a two month period of taking 2mg a day. I can post the research I found on here if you would like and haven't already come across it

yes please actually thatd be really helpful :D

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Cheers for the advise RR, it's great to here some experienced opinion.

As for my other symptoms, the first three weeks to a month of HPPD was me wasting in a depersonalisation like state, which gladly resolved itself and I'm essentially free from that now, (although can't say how i was able to get out of it) apart from a few very occasional instances where I would literally just have a few seconds flashback of same state. This was months before I knew anything about the fact that this was an established disorder so prior to me receiving any treatment for HPPD, just thought I'd whack that in there for a bit of contextual history. The Clonazepam though has reduced that day to day heavy-headed feeling of the constant burden of obsessing over my symptoms that I imagine all HPPD afflicted people go through. Weeks would pass where it was all I would think about, and I found it fairly hard to concentrate in lessons at college, the severity of most of these symptoms has definitely decreased whilst I've been on Clonazepam. However with Clonazepam concentration still remains a problem, but that's another issue.

So Clonazepam has improved some factors, but the visuals seem to remain and yes, i suppose that in the past month or two I am beginning to realise that this may be the case for life although I still have hope that one day I may be completely free. I think my plan therefore at the moment is to try to withdraw before getting too into it and and trying the meditation (this is mainly counting on if I can successfully withdraw before my college holiday and my booked course) If Vipassana however cannot provide much help or relief and if I feel it necessary, I may attempt a return to Clon, and may push for that higher dose. Sorry to hear Vipassana didn't work out for you, can I ask did you attempt a retreat or just tried home practice?

Relating to my doctor I believe his reasoning was that, like most doctors he knew nothing about HPPD and so was sceptical about prescribing me Clonazepam for an indefinite amount of time. Also the research I showed him (although only researching 16 or so people) came to the conclusion that 2mg of Clonazepam for two months helped people's recovery to an extent both during and after taking the drug. I must say I was also hesitant after reading various internet articles to commit to long term Clonazepam treatment.

Once again, Thanks for the reply

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yes please actually thatd be really helpful :D

An unique and intriguing characteristic of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) and LSD-like substances is the recurrence of some of the symptoms which appear during the intoxication, in the absence of recent intake of hallucinogens. Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD) is a condition in which the re-experiencing of one or more perceptual symptoms causes significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning and may be extremely debilitating. Benzodiazepines are one of the recommended agents for the treatment of HPPD but it is unclear which of them may be more helpful. The goal of our investigation was to assess the efficacy of clonazepam in the treatment of LSD-induced HPPD. Sixteen patients fulfilled entrance criteria. All complained of HPPD with anxiety features for at least 3 months and were drug free at least 3 months. They received clonazepam 2 mg/day for 2 months. Follow-up was continued for 6 months. They were weekly evaluated during the 2 months of clonazepam administration and monthly during the follow-up period using the Clinical Global Impression Scale, a Self-report Scale and Hamilton Anxiety Rating Scale. Patients reported a significant relief and the presence of only mild symptomatology during the clonazepam administration. This improvement was clearly sustained and persisted during a 6-month follow-up period. This study suggests that high potency benzodiazepines like clonazepam, which has serotonergic properties, may be more effective than low-potency benzodiazepines in the treatment of some patients with LSD-induced HPPD.

Read more: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20458#ixzz1kQa1EvRc

Couldn't find this in context, just as a post in this drugs forum but its exactly what i showed my doctor and now I'm on the drugs, hope it helps if you give it a go.

Good Luck!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey guys and girls,

Question for you:

So it's ~6 weeks since my taper from 3 to 2.75 and I still feel like crap. 1998, you gave me some hope that it takes longer to stabilize, but I'm starting to fear that I've approached my limit (i.e. I require more than 2.75mg/day for the HPPD that hasn't left me even after 6 years). It's been off and on. Today was horrible. Head buzz started 3 hours into my day then just a huge amount of dizziness, head pressure, dissociation. Dunno how it can suddenly just spike like that (yesterday and the day before were low level symptoms, but still symptoms).

any insight into whether this is the withdrawal or simply the relapse?

98 I know you said sometimes 2 months, but for less than 10% too? It's definitely how you described your monthlong WD as feeling like you were on a small dose of acid.

What should I be doing? FTR, no alcohol, no caffeine.

---

After having gone over some posts at Benzo buddies, I am a little freaked out. This is what the majority of people have written in threads:

- when lowering your dose, you may experience relative withdrawal symtptoms, that is to say that at your lower dose, you are tolerant to that dose of benzo (as was probably the reason for you increasing it in the first place)

- the sticky on this says that cutting faster won't get rid of your tolerance wd on the way down, and that going slowly will improve your chance of successfully coming off

- this will, however prolong the WD since it will take longer to come off

- maximum amount of time to "hold" is 3 weeks, otherwise you just start to experience tolerance wd -- so saying that if you haven't stabilised in 3 weeks, it ain't gonna happen, and you have to get all the way down and you're never going to be symptom-free at any point during that period + however long after you quit

I just don't understand this. What is the point of holding or even reducing your dose if it is definitely going to harm your std of living. I was doing quite fine on 3.5 and thought perhaps i don't NEED that much, so I'd go lower. Now it seems I'm forever stuck on this slide until I get off and then perhaps who knows how long to recover. Also, these are people that don't have underlying HPPD, which again, I'm starting to really think it hasn't even been halved for me, that my HPPD continues to stay where it is the whole time, thus I NEED 3.5 mg, or maybe 3.25 or 3.

For people withdrawing, is it because you just want to get off due to negative side effects or like me, want to reduce your dose where possible?

98, sorry to bug you, but when you say you stabilized at 3.25 from 3.5, do you mean you felt pretty much 90-100% (i.e. you obviously had HPPD, but it was barely noticeable and you were effectively "cured" of its effect on your life)? This is what I'm trying to do by reducing, but I'm wellll past 3 weeks and have lost hope for stabilizing at 2.75mg/day.

As is mentioned often, up-dosing is not likely to return me to my previous "happy" state and overall is a step in the wrong direction even IF I could get a doctor to approve of it.

So...IS there any chance of stabilzing at 2.75? I thought that the reason it was taking so long was due to the rapidity of my first three cuts (1week-10 days apart), as if I wasn't fully stabilized, but the one good day when I thought I was indicated that I should cut and now I'm paying for those, but that I'll eventually catch up and stabilize. HELP!

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