Starting benzotropine and haloperidol

[tlehmbecker]

Well, I'll finally be starting haloperidol (and benzotropine to prevent EPS).

 

I tried the benzotrpoine by itself last night, no effect on HPPD at all. Classic effects of a high potency anticholinergic were present though. When I woke up my vision was blurry (not in an HPPD way, like being drunk or waking up after being knocked out) and pupils moderately dilated which dissipated over the course of an hour. Still no effects on HPPD.

 

I'll be starting the haloperidol tonight. I've been looking at the binding profile of haloperidol (from various sources of course) and it appears as if haloperidol is really only a dopamine antagonist. It has relatively negligible binding affinity for other receptors, 5-HT_2A being one of them. The only receptors that I saw that it had significant effects on were D₄ and D₂.

 

What I'm getting at is that haloperidol may be worth a shot after all since it doesn't have much of an effect on serotonin which is believed to be the major driving force of HPPD. So, I'm going to give it a shot.

[hppd33]

2 meds that blur your vision. Good luck

[trip into hell]

fuck meds...none of them work and even if it does..its just a temporary patch for symptoms...no treatment, no cure at all....

[neffbull]

 

fuck meds...none of them work and even if it does..its just a temporary patch for symptoms...no treatment, no cure at all....

 

" Dramatic improvement with naltrexone (50 mg daily) was reported in two young men with LSD-induced HPPD. The remission was sustained as it was possible to discontinue the naltrexone after 2 months without precipitating a relapse "

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3736944/table/table2-2045125312451270/

 

Whats wrong with treating symptoms? Lamictal hasn't "cured" me but it has dramatically increased my quality of life.

[neffbull]

 

Well, I'll finally be starting haloperidol

Does your doctor understand that HPPD isn't a psychotic disorder? Or are you experiencing psychosis on top of the HPPD?

"It is important to note that in contrast to classical psychotic disorders, patients with HPPD recognize the unreal nature of their visual disturbances which qualifies them as pseudohallucinations."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3736944/

[tlehmbecker]

Does your doctor understand that HPPD isn't a psychotic disorder? Or are you experiencing psychosis on top of the HPPD?

"It is important to note that in contrast to classical psychotic disorders, patients with HPPD recognize the unreal nature of their visual disturbances which qualifies them as pseudohallucinations."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3736944/

Yes, he does. I do have an underlying chronic yet mild psychotic disorder (schizoaffective disorder). Also, haloperidol is a potential treatment for HPPD, though that information is rather dated, no one has done any definitive study on it since. That's why we're trying haloperidol. He also knows that atypical antipsychotics like risperidone worsen HPPD symptoms, so we're avoiding those and anything else that messes with serotonin in a dramatic way (most antidepressants) as treatments for my other disorders (major depressive disorder and panic disorder in addition to the schizoaffective disorder).

 

Being that haloperidol basically has no effect on the 5-HT_2A receptors (it acts as a silent antagonist, so it binds there somewhat, but has no intrinsic activity at the site), it is most likely the least dangerous antipsychotic in terms of worsening HPPD (mainly because most serotonergic drugs cause a dramatic worsening of symptoms, and atypical antipsychotics bind to5-HT_2A receptors like super glue acting as complete/partial antagonists and inverse agonists).

[neffbull]

 

Yes, he does.

 

Just wanted to make sure

 

 

Also, haloperidol is a potential treatment for HPPD

Are you talking about the study that the Army did? Sounds like could work for you

 

" 8 military prisoners were sucessfully treated with haloperidol. The case description suggest that several subjects suffering from an underlying chronic psychotic disorder "

http://www.esciencecentral.org/journals/hallucinogen-persisting-perception-disorder-hppd-and-flashback-are-they-identical-jaldd.1000121.pdf

 

I've been trying to find the article but everything has been a dead end

[trip into hell]

" Dramatic improvement with naltrexone (50 mg daily) was reported in two young men with LSD-induced HPPD. The remission was sustained as it was possible to discontinue the naltrexone after 2 months without precipitating a relapse "

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3736944/table/table2-2045125312451270/

 

Whats wrong with treating symptoms? Lamictal hasn't "cured" me but it has dramatically increased my quality of life

i cant imagine how this could work for someone...meds never helped me and i think its impossible to be cured...and if i cant get cured its not the right solution to my mind...i also hesitate to agree that someone who claims he got over it is cured when he cant take drugs anymore...this is not a cure because this person is still not back to normal..i think being able to consume something is a proof that you dont have hppd/dp/dr or dont have it anymore...

 

not to forget that my hppd is over and i still struggle with anxiety disorder and cant find any help...its destroying my life and i dont want to get addicted by prescription meds cause it could be that i wont get it prescribed anymore some day and the withdrawl is terrible...life is just a bunch of shit for me because its not only that it doesnt make sense anymore but also i feel seriously depressed most of the time and cant do anything due to incapability of taking drugs in medium to high doses just as enjoying myself in general...im not one of these persons who can live just to distract themselves from living..i have to be able to relax on myself or i want to die..

[tlehmbecker]

 

Are you talking about the study that the Army did? Sounds like could work for you

 

" 8 military prisoners were sucessfully treated with haloperidol. The case description suggest that several subjects suffering from an underlying chronic psychotic disorder "

http://www.esciencecentral.org/journals/hallucinogen-persisting-perception-disorder-hppd-and-flashback-are-they-identical-jaldd.1000121.pdf

 

I've been trying to find the article but everything has been a dead end

 

That is the study that I'm referencing. I can't remember if it was Halpern or Lerner that has some unpublished data about treating HPPD with certain antipsychotics, and they also mention haloperidol as well.

 

i cant imagine how this could work for someone...meds never helped me and i think its impossible to be cured...and if i cant get cured its not the right solution to my mind...i also hesitate to agree that someone who claims he got over it is cured when he cant take drugs anymore...this is not a cure because this person is still not back to normal..i think being able to consume something is a proof that you dont have hppd/dp/dr or dont have it anymore...

 

Just because meds didn't work for you doesn't mean meds won't work for me or anyone else. Regarding drug use, most who have HPPD and get over it tend to abstain from drugs because they realize that drugs can fuck you up in more than one way. Personally, I don't think who has had HPPD and gotten over it should ever do drugs again. I see it as too risky. They already had it once so they're likely to get it again if they start using again. If their brain was susceptible enough in the beginning to get HPPD then it's always susceptible, that won't ever go away. We're not trying to cure HPPD here, just treat it, alleviate the symptoms. If we were going to cure it we would attack the symptoms and the causative factor, but we can't with HPPD. Same thing goes with cancer, you're never cured of cancer. Sure, all the symptoms might be gone, but you can still develop cancer. Curing it would imply that we get rid of the cancer and then make it so ou can't cancer again.

[trip into hell]

thats what i mean by saying cure...youre absolutely right if i claim im cured its not just that i dont have symptoms anymore..it also means that i cant get back to this condition....i just cant accept that we only try to deal with something so horrible without trying to cure it completely..i mean this would be the only thing worth the effort to me...sorry for disturbing you...but im no friend of trying to cope with shit instead of fighting it.

[trip into hell]

Black or white thinking, and the premises and causality links are wrong also. I won't spend any more time in the discussion.

 

You posted that you were completely cured of HPPD. Why are you still wasting your time in this board?

i just think so absolute about this because its no option to cope with this unless you completely gave up living a life worth living..a life without hppd/dp/dr/anxiety must be possible its nothing i want to cope with...this is not wrong its just that you dont understand because you already gave up.

 

im here because my suffering didnt end even though hppd did..asking me why im wasting my time here is the same as asking why you + everyone else are here....i bet you have no clue ..i tell you its generally useless

 

excuse me for being rude but youre the most ignorant fool ive ever met here...and most probably an asshole

[neffbull]

 

meds never helped me and i think its impossible to be cured...and if i cant get cured its not the right solution to my mind

I'm sorry that has been your case but you said medication can't help anyone. There's a big difference.

 

 

 

not to forget that my hppd is over and i still struggle with anxiety disorder and cant find any help.

That's good to hear that your visuals have gone away! Did you have anxiety before HPPD? The anxiety that started with my HPPD is the worst and strongest symptom that I have.

 

 

.life is just a bunch of shit for me because its not only that it doesnt make sense anymore but also i feel seriously depressed most of the time and cant do anything due to incapability of taking drugs in medium to high doses just as enjoying myself in general.

Have you tried talking to a doctor about taking something for your depression? This sounds like you want to take drugs to self medicate.

 

 

I tried Naltrexone with positive results. There were strong side-effects after a few days, they did not decrease but intensify as time went by. Most notably: Sleep disturbances, emotional instability, some degree of suicidal recreation, and a slight level of psychotic behavior. There were reductions on most HPPD symptoms though, especially brain fog. Those continued after the discontinuation of Naltrexone. n=1.

Could you expand on the side effects that you experienced? Did the brain fog come back like it was before? How long did you take it for? Were you taking anything else with it (legal and/or illegal drugs? I've been hoping to give it a try but I've had issues with depression and anxiety so that's worrying.

[trip into hell]

I'm sorry that has been your case but you said medication can't help anyone. There's a big difference.

 

That's good to hear that your visuals have gone away! Did you have anxiety before HPPD? The anxiety that started with my HPPD is the worst and strongest symptom that I have.

 

Have you tried talking to a doctor about taking something for your depression? This sounds like you want to take drugs to self medicate.

if everyone instead of me defines '' being of help'' as just covering symptoms..then of course medication is helpful...i wouldnt even call it medicine as long as its not treating anything because if so its more of a drug..

 

i didnt have anxiety before hppd...just a little paranoia here and there...my vision is completely solid again and i dont get panic out of nowhere..just if i take too much drugs or experience altered states of another kind (like doing sports or driving in a car)..the problem i have is the severe depression (and rejection issues) and that makes me sick.

 

yes i spoke about a prescription with my doctor but she didnt want to prescribe me something useful because i have a drug past...my neurologist prescribed me shit and when i tried it i felt very sick and somehow depersonalized a bit..it was awful...

 

a friend told me he could offer benzos but i would have to pay 20€ for only 3 pills...so i rejected

[neffbull]

 

i wouldnt even call it medicine as long as its not treating anything

Unfortunately, modern medicine doesn't know much about the brain and it knows even less about how medications affect (effect?) it. So they very well may not change anything, it's hard to say. But what can be said is that stress causes damage to the brain and, I don't know about you, seeing shit moving around stresses me out. Fortunately, that damage can be undone, at least to a certain extent, so these drug may very well treat our condition in different ways like lowering anxiety levels and helping depression(also, lamictal is neuroprotective). Also, I don't know about you but stress makes my symptoms worse.

 

 

yes i spoke about a prescription with my doctor but she didnt want to prescribe me something useful because i have a drug past

I know that I sound like a broken record at this point, but have you tried lamictal? It can treat hppd, depression and anxiety. It won't be a quick fix, it took a few months to really start helping me, but it's definitely could be worth waiting out and most side effects, if you even have any, will dissipate with in a few weeks. I don't see why a doctor wouldn't prescribe it but cause it has zero abuse potential. I'm also taking prazosin now and it has made a major dent in my anxiety and all you would have to say is you are dealing with nightmares. Some people have mentioned on this forum that they think HPPD is linked to PTSD and prazosin is used to treat PTSD as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prazosin

 

 

Have you asked about being referred to a psychologist? It has been essential to my recovery because I've dealt with a lot of shit through my life and it helped me face it comfortably. A psychologist decides what type of therapy is best for their client so how they could help you may be different from how mine is helping me, but what he has done is basically helped me view my problems in a slightly different light/angle. I would typically just get fucked up to deal with my problems but I don't feel those urges anywhere near the extent that I used to. I actually took LSD in hopes it would help me find answers to my life issues, but instead it just gave me a few extra.