An AMAZONIAN SHAMANS View of HPPD

[Spartan]

Hi there,

 

A week or so ago, i wrote to a shamanic community in the Amazon asking one of the facilitators to ask the main Shaman what there view of HPPD may be... and what affect one of the medicinal plants, Ayahuasca (hallucinogenic ) may have on HPPD.

 

She very kindly asked the main Shaman and it is quite fascinating what there reply was.

 

I have pasted the email reply below.

 

It’s important to remember Shamans are healers / people. They are not Saints, tho that another story for another day.

 

I will send her my reply soon :

 

 

 

 

So sorry for the delayed reply, I was traveling to peru and then wanted to ask the shamans about your question. 

 

This is a difficult subject and I'm sure difficult for you to have these visual distortions. From the western perspective, there isn't enough research or understanding of HPPD to know if taking another hallucinogen would be able to help and there certainly is a possibility of the situation worsening which is a concern.

 

I work with shipibo shamans here in the jungle in Pucallpa, Peru. From their perspective, they say they would like to work with you on this. They say that this is an issue of energy being trapped in the head. That there are certain plants and kinds of massage and herbal vapor baths that they can use in addition to ayahuasca to help release that energy. They say they find that some people come to them with this kind of thing who have been in cold climates and who's bodies aren't designed for the cold and that has a way of contracting the energy system and locking energy in the body when they do hallucinogens. They work a lot with the idea of heat and cold much like you see in chinese medicine. They also have found that some people who have had this kind of issue had a head or neck injury at some point in life, even in childhood which also contributes to the blocks in flow of energy to and from the head. I don't know if any of these things apply to you and while they are very good, I can't say that what they will do will work or if your condition could worsen. I do think that your idea that working with these plants can help come to terms with it is also a good goal to have. There is also the option of working with them using the other plants (which are not hallucinogenic) without taking ayahuasca. You would still come to ceremonies and they would work on you throughout the experience. 

 

I also want to let you know that if it does feel good for you to come, that I would be there to support you in the process and work with them to do our best to find a solution. 

 

Have you done ayahuasca before? How long have you been experiencing these visual distortions?

 

Let me know your thoughts.

[Spartan]

 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Spartan

[Spartan]

i was thinking of shareing my response.. tho its kind of personal

[Spartan]

I

[miketusa]

Quite an interesting letter. I myself have never done ahyuasca. I have a friend who has, and had nothing but good things to say about it. I guess the greatest risk is the pontential of worsening your condition. . .I think if you feel like its something that could pontentially help, and youre in a position to try this, then go for it.

 

Seems like an interesting adventure if nothing else.

[Jay1]

I would try the other plants mentioned first. Loads of our western drugs/meds originate from plants found in the jungles, who knows what they have that could help.

[LarryC]

It is interesting, thanks. 

I will share something that happened also.  I had a relapse or recurrence of visual symptoms after a long hike up and down a mountain.  I strained my body and neck.  On the way down I jerked my neck a lot.  We were not on the trail on the way down.  I also had a lot of tension afterwards from the hike and an argument with a friend.  The symptoms came back.  And then a year or so later I woke up with static witch I had not had ever before.  I am mentioning all this because I want to say what happened next.  There was a Mayan shaman in the area for a short time.  I went to him for a type of reading.  He had a translator since he did not speak English.  The reading consisted of me laying down on the bed and he doing some ritual and some prayer.  It is important to note that I had not told him what was wrong.

After it was over he spoke to me through his translator.  To make it short he said that he saw a gray area at my neck.  He also said that it was moving to the sides of my head.  He said that they call it air and the Chinese call it wind.  He said that it will cause vision problems and mental problems.  Again he did not now that I already had them.

He could not heal me but told me that a couple/few weeks in certain waters in Guatemala would be the treatment.  I could not go but I think that was very interesting. 

Others said it is energy blocks. 

[Jay1]

That's really interesting, Larry.

 

We are so quick to scoff at non western treatments, but if we step back.. western medicine is basically a huge money making machine and we are conditioned to think it is perfect, when it is often far from perfect....

 

There must be something in these traditional methods. Has anyone ever done any acupuncture or similar?

[LarryC]

Jay I agree with you completely on this.  Many People here as in all other conditions are looking for a pill that will make it go away.  The eastern way can be much different.  Of course they use herbs but when a condition is chronic they suggest certain self healing methods done over a long period of time and also supplement with additional help with herbs acupuncture etc.

The shaman that diagnosed me had said that acupuncture may help.  I was not able to find at the time a practitioner who used the old understanding of wind, the five elements.

But I think the moral of the story is that there are other understandings of physical dysfunctions that are not included in western medicine. 

[Lobotomizer]

OP , I had my main HPPD symptoms subside up to 60-70% from one experience with low-dose mushrooms.

 

My hppd started 4 years prior with a high dose LSD experience....I had never tried any other psychedelic and was teriified to try mushrooms... something about them was calling me. I felt cleansed by it when I came down. It removed my anxiety and depression and healed my vision to a considerable degree. I definitely did feel a release of built up stagnant energy(although I was tripping mildly so it could have been in my head) Im just sharing what happened with me...as this could be potentally high risk for other to try it.

 

Since then I used mushrooms several times a year with no ill effects besides the occasional uncomfortable experience. I also used non tryptamine psychedleics and they seemed to worsen my symtoms but LSD was the worst.

 

 

Interestingly 4-ho-dmt is the chemical name for psilocin (the active chemical in mushrooms) It is extremely close to the DMT in ayahuasca. In fact psilocin is basically DMT and many report ayahuasca to be almost identical to a high dose mushrooms experience.

 

This is a very interesting documentary from BBC. (aprox 19mins into the video) It includes a study on a Brazilian modern urban community that uses ayahuasca about every two weeks at their church for healing purposes some of the users are young teenagers.  They did a study alongside a control group and found no neurotoxic effects and the ayahuasca users actually scored higher in some areas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEdxrHud5tE

[Missjess]

That's an interesting response. I personally wouldn't touch another hallucinogen ever again.

I have done ayahuasca 8 times before getting hppd from ibogaine ...ayahuasca was beautiful but I also had a terrifying experience with if. I can't see how it could help hppd, I agree with what they are saying about having a head injury and mayb energy being blocked in the head but that could just be because our brains got fuked and fried from taking hallucinogens so how can the energy flow properly again after that ?

[Spartan]

yes.. i too will never touch another hellucinagen again...

 

i have done dmt once post hppd.. thats was a silly thing to do..

 

I dont consider my brain fucked or fried, and i dont think that mind-set is life giving or conductive to healing outcomes.

 

For me it is a matter of "re-training" my brain, re-inventing myself and creating new nural pathways. This can be done in many ways.

 

I think there are numerous ways to get "energy flowing" again.

 

Here are a few tips relating to hppd. Each one of there areas can be explored extensivley with helpful practices to be intergrated and executed.

 

I do find meditation helpful....

 

http://www.wikihow.com/Deal-With-HPPD

[Lobotomizer]

Spartan, that's interesting that you tried DMT post HPPD. May I ask if it had any effect on your chemistry at all? Did it worsen or symptoms or did it seem benign to it?

 

Like I stated above. I believe that tryptamines or more specifically DMT based substances are less likely to cause these problems...perhaps because DMT is compatible with organisms? This is a very loose hypothesis. But I have noticed zero increase in HPPD and I undulge in mushrooms for creative, spiritual and personal growth reasons roughly bi-annually.

 

I did however notice exacerbation of symptoms from other drugs such as cannabis and acid.

 

DMT based chemicals seem to be extrememly commonly found in nature, and there are obvious benefits to it as medicine, hence the shamans discussed above and also the newest scientific research that's being done. That's not to say theres no side effects to using these compounds....there quite obviously is ...especially if you are predisposed to mental illness.

[Merkan]

Spartan, that's interesting that you tried DMT post HPPD. May I ask if it had any effect on your chemistry at all? Did it worsen or symptoms or did it seem benign to it?

 

Like I stated above. I believe that tryptamines or more specifically DMT based substances are less likely to cause these problems...perhaps because DMT is compatible with organisms? This is a very loose hypothesis. But I have noticed zero increase in HPPD and I undulge in mushrooms for creative, spiritual and personal growth reasons roughly bi-annually.

 

I am also very interested in what happened taking DMT post HPPD. Just watched "The spirit molecule", interesting though alot of the philosophy is a little bit to much.

 

I also believe there would be a great chance taht i wouldnt have got HPPD if i would have stuck to mushrooms and/or DMT. That MDA really burnt me. However MIssjess got it from Iboga so...

 

OT: wonder what the difference is from DMT release inside the brain and taking it orally when it comes to our CNS.

[Spartan]

Hey Labotimizer.. And Jay

 

Absolutely. Sure.. I will do my best to share and explain my experience.

 

I smoked DMT at an alternative festival in northern Australia.

 

There were a group of people giving a workshop / talk on psycadelics and they were speaking about DMT. I had never heard of it at this time. After the talk i was curious and asked them about it. They said it was nothing like LSD. They had some DMT there and then asked me if i would like to experience it.. i was curious and proceeded.

 

The next thing I knew 3 girls set up a rug for me to sit on,,, on the ground and some Guy brought me a glass pipe.

 

I proceeded to smoke... This is what happened during the trip:

 

Before i had even finished half an inhalation (toke) the glass pipe turned into 7 pipes directly in front of my eyes.

Then a huge Gum tree moved through my body, like a car driving through a pane of glass. At this point i collapsed backwards onto the ground.

 

From here i was transported to a realm half way between the earth and the sun.. what i can enliken to an "astral heaven" filled with the brightest lights and images made of light resembling "mandalas".

 

There i was met by 1000s of Goddesses.. With the most feminine forms. There bodies were made of light.. of all different colours moving from the crown of their heads all the way to the base constantly moveing.

They all surrounded me in a circle and then picked me up in the centre with all their hands joining.. and raised me up above their heads and held me up there. While this was taking place, a telepathic communication took place between myself and them.

 

After some time, I slowly started to descend back to the earth, back to where I smoked the pipe... and came back into my body.

 

haha wow.. no wonder another name for DMT is "the business man’s lunch"  I was out for about 15 minutes.

 

I think because I did not even know what DMT was or anything about it.. it took me some time to integrate the experience. was quite blowen away. The guy who administered it to me said he felt "fear" in my heart. No wonder due to past experiences / hppd and drug induced trauma etc.

 

I think afterwards, from what I can remember... it did heighten HPPD visuals for some time. When when i came back into my body the hallucinations were quite strong still.. and I think reflecting on this and the experience may have amped / heightened my hppd for a day or two or three. Then likely it returned back to the normal base level.

 

I agree that DMT is less likely to cause hppd like you say. Absolutely.. I think it’s way more natural, found in nature and in is also in our brains. Better than LSD in my opinion. I’m really not sure of the mechanics of how it would affect an individual in a different way to lsd and mdmd etc etc...

 

It’s quite amazing that, after having this experience, I researched DMT fully. I found Dr Rick Strassman online and shared what I have been experiencing for years (hppd) Dr Rick Strassman told me about HPPD and this is when I first realized that what i had been dealing with all those years was HPPD.

[Lobotomizer]

I am also very interested in what happened taking DMT post HPPD. Just watched "The spirit molecule", interesting though alot of the philosophy is a little bit to much.

 

I also believe there would be a great chance taht i wouldnt have got HPPD if i would have stuck to mushrooms and/or DMT. That MDA really burnt me. However MIssjess got it from Iboga so...

 

OT: wonder what the difference is from DMT release inside the brain and taking it orally when it comes to our CNS.

 

Hey Merkan, I don't know if you are aware of this but Ibogaine has been a KNOWN neurotoxin. It may not effect some but apparently there is a chance of neurtoxicity in users. Oddly this neurotoxic effect does not effect everyone. Further reading through messjess' experiences and posts , here case is seems quite a bit different. She seems to have symptoms that are unique. The definition of HPPD is a visual phenomena strictly. Some people do experience some problems co-morbidly but HPPD is strictly visual. Im about to make a very interesting post in the general forums and I advice EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS FORUM TO READ IT. As this will give some brand new insight into HPP that I have not yet seen discussed here. Possibly a new direction to start looking in for answers/cure. Keep your eyes peeled

[Lobotomizer]

 

I think afterwards, from what I can remember... it did heighten HPPD visuals for some time. When when i came back into my body the hallucinations were quite strong still.. and I think reflecting on this and the experience may have amped / heightened my hppd for a day or two or three. Then likely it returned back to the normal base level.

 

THIS ^^^ I just wanted to asure you that this is normal with any drug experience , especially psychedelics or cannabis. But even opiods or other classes make you sort of "off" for several days even after the drug is out of the system, many aspects of our consciousness is still quite stimulated.

 

Spartan as I menytioned above PLEASE keep your eyes peeled for a new post I will be making within next hour or so....its crucial that everyone takes a look. Its quite possible that HPPD is a completely inaccurate diagnosis/term. What im suggesting from my research its quite possibly NOT THE DRUGS.

[Spartan]

Ok Labotimizer.. It sounds awesome, Im keeping my eyes peeled.. Looking forward to it! Thanks...

[Spartan]

thankyou everyone for shareing your thaughts and experiences

[Spartan]

i

[SoftserveSodium]

Hello, i’m very interested in this. I honestly dont mind that much if my hppd gets a little bit worse so i might try going to a shaman, where are these people located exactly?

[Fawkinchit]

God damn 6 year bump. Slightly curious what the "other plants" were, but as far as ayahuasca, they are morons IMO. These shamans are most likely unknowledgeable, but theres a 1% chance of one being a master, then he would know. 

[Spartan]

hello . cool thanks for sharing. to be honest shamans are located in various parts of the world. tho you want to find a real one. 

I have recently undergone a series of shamanic initiations, I can give you  more info details via DM

my other shamanic teacher passed over a while ago, though i often communicate with him in spirit as he works through me in non ordinary states.

I dont touch any psychedelics although journey via a tequnice called "shamanic Breath work" that releases DMT naturally in the brain.  Part of the intent is to journey to find solutions and healing naturally, seeing as there is no other treatment for hppd. 

In the non ordinary state you have experiences and encounters that are no different from plant medicines

I have been involved with shamanic work for approximately 30 years have have been around the block more than a few times in relation to shamanic work.

 

Happy to keep sharing

Best Regards