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Definitely a lot of interesting info to sort through there! I'm reading through it at the moment. Pretty much killed the mild interest I've had in pursuing NMDA antagonism, haha. Presumably you saw Odisa's post in your thread, but Newmind are stocking d-cycloserine now, if you're interested in buying it.

 

Yeah, bit of a bummer, but that's how it goes. I'm glad to have given it a shot at least! I see in your status that you're doing quite well on Keppra. That's awesome! A couple of questions: Is that 70-80% recovery due completely to Keppra? What else are you taking currently? Also, is there any chance you could link me to wherever you've detailed your HPPD experience (cause, symptoms, etc.)?

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I have these symptoms as well. I think, perhaps in part, it may be interrelated with DP/DR, as I find I also have a general lack of environmental/spatial awareness at all times, which doesn't seem to be related to visual symptoms, but rather as if not every part of the picture is registering in to my consciousness. Perhaps improved spatial awareness will also help build a stronger sense of direction; this is something I find severely lacking when transporting myself.

In any case, it does seem to hold more merit than merely micromanaging neurotransmitters/receptors.
As for 7,8-DHF; it should be significantly more potent than Cerebrolysin at agonizing TrkB.
Anyway; I've ordered a gram of NSI-189 off of eBay, hoping it'll last me until my 5 gram batch arrives.
Dunno how legit it is, but I'm tired of waiting, and I thought the worst that could happen is that I just get sold Inositol instead or something.
Should be here within 2 weeks or so, so I'll be sure to update when it arrives.

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Definitely a lot of interesting info to sort through there! I'm reading through it at the moment. Pretty much killed the mild interest I've had in pursuing NMDA antagonism, haha. Presumably you saw Odisa's post in your thread, but Newmind are stocking d-cycloserine now, if you're interested in buying it.

 

Yeah, bit of a bummer, but that's how it goes. I'm glad to have given it a shot at least! I see in your status that you're doing quite well on Keppra. That's awesome! A couple of questions: Is that 70-80% recovery due completely to Keppra? What else are you taking currently? Also, is there any chance you could link me to wherever you've detailed your HPPD experience (cause, symptoms, etc.)?

 

HPPD'ers have found NMDA antagonism provides symptom relief. My current understanding of the NMDA receptor is that it is an important 'gate' that mediates long term plasticity and memory; the gate which probably mediates our long term modifications of neurochemistry. Blocking this gate might stop this long term damage 'feeding back' and producing symptoms. But, blocking this gate will, for sure, impact long term memory and NMDA antagonists e.g ketamine produce schizophrenic symptoms (hmm). There are loads of studies in that thread that show this. It depends on how bad your symptoms are, you might find it gives you valuable symptom relief that makes life just that bit more bearable. But, it might impact the ability to make beneficial long term adjustments to your brain. My proposal for treatment, 'chemically induced fear extinction', does not involve forgetting traumatic memories (e.g acid-like visuals) but creating new ones. They have shown in studies, which are in that thread, that this is how fear extinction works. So I suggest to leave this receptor as available as possible, for the sake of future neuroplasticity.

In honesty, I am not quite sure about my theory until I understand things on a cellular level, but I think the reasoning based on the studies works.

Many people have reported recovering largely from ignoring the visuals and just accepting them, keeping their mind occupied. I imagine this is a kind of fear extinction; learning how to deal with something that has marked your mind; like witnessing a death or being threatened. You don't forget this in PTSD recovery, but learn not to react whenever you see a body lying on the floor, or someone holding a knife.

I did see that regarding d-cycloserine, but I would prefer something more pure.

I cannot be sure how much of it is due to Keppra, but I am quite sure most of the recent developments are largely to do with it. Everyday, I take 2 grams vit c, a vitamin b complex, 450mg magnesium, 500mg calcium, 50mg manganese, 400-800mg ALCAR + 200-400mg alpha lipoic acid, 400mg SAMe (doctor's best), 500-1,500mg bacopa monneiri, I drink lion's mane tea and have magnesium baths. Notice some of my doses might seem quite high. Some of these supps were for lowering histamine levels, and seems to have helped my general feeling of well being (which is hard to separate from my 'HPPD'). I have wondered if there is a link between my HPPD and histamine levels. My noticeable histadelic symptoms began at the same time as I got HPPD. If you want me to discuss any of those things in particular, why I am taking them, let me know. It is worth mentioning that ALCAR seems to do a lot for me. Actually, anything that touches choline helps (ODISA  ;))

I am not sure what happened to my introduction post.. I haven't been able to find it. Such a shame because I want to compare things to back then...

 

I have these symptoms as well. I think, perhaps in part, it may be interrelated with DP/DR, as I find I also have a general lack of environmental/spatial awareness at all times, which doesn't seem to be related to visual symptoms, but rather as if not every part of the picture is registering in to my consciousness. Perhaps improved spatial awareness will also help build a stronger sense of direction; this is something I find severely lacking when transporting myself.

In any case, it does seem to hold more merit than merely micromanaging neurotransmitters/receptors.

As for 7,8-DHF; it should be significantly more potent than Cerebrolysin at agonizing TrkB.

Anyway; I've ordered a gram of NSI-189 off of eBay, hoping it'll last me until my 5 gram batch arrives.

Dunno how legit it is, but I'm tired of waiting, and I thought the worst that could happen is that I just get sold Inositol instead or something.

Should be here within 2 weeks or so, so I'll be sure to update when it arrives.

Good luck man! I got some inositol in to trial but started something else first. What doses are you thinking of doing? The high 14-18g (IIRC) ? The only thing is consuming that much of it.. ugh. Have you looked into DMAE?

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Ohh I meant that in the worst case I get scammed and get sold Inositol posed as NSI-189, for example. I'm not actually buying Inositol (I hope :P).
I've tried Inositol/Ch Bitartrate 50/50 combination at those high doses.. Never did anything for me, but that may be due to a hell of a lot of choline.
Nope; haven't considered DMAE myself. Good to hear you're feeling better though!

As for NMDA agonism; tried Sarcosine for up to 3 grams B.I.D. with 3-5 grams Glycine to no avail.. Perhaps too weak, perhaps I should try longer. D-cyclo is still an option, but I'd have to cautiously look into dosage, cause potential side effects don't look great (e.g. psychosis). As for Newmind's D-cyclo; if the other 40% is L-cyclo, it wouldn't be too much of an issue, considering L-cyclo has some interesting properties that could be beneficial as well. NRX-1074's structure is expected to be public early 2014, so that's one to look out for.

If neither NSI-189 or 7,8-DHF help me, I think I'm going to go benzo style on this until the rest of my wish list is available. Damned cocaine.
Cheers guys.

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HPPD'ers have found NMDA antagonism provides symptom relief. My current understanding of the NMDA receptor is that it is an important 'gate' that mediates long term plasticity and memory; the gate which probably mediates our long term modifications of neurochemistry. Blocking this gate might stop this long term damage 'feeding back' and producing symptoms. But, blocking this gate will, for sure, impact long term memory and NMDA antagonists e.g ketamine produce schizophrenic symptoms (hmm). There are loads of studies in that thread that show this. It depends on how bad your symptoms are, you might find it gives you valuable symptom relief that makes life just that bit more bearable. But, it might impact the ability to make beneficial long term adjustments to your brain. My proposal for treatment, 'chemically induced fear extinction', does not involve forgetting traumatic memories (e.g acid-like visuals) but creating new ones. They have shown in studies, which are in that thread, that this is how fear extinction works. So I suggest to leave this receptor as available as possible, for the sake of future neuroplasticity.

In honesty, I am not quite sure about my theory until I understand things on a cellular level, but I think the reasoning based on the studies works.

Many people have reported recovering largely from ignoring the visuals and just accepting them, keeping their mind occupied. I imagine this is a kind of fear extinction; learning how to deal with something that has marked your mind; like witnessing a death or being threatened. You don't forget this in PTSD recovery, but learn not to react whenever you see a body lying on the floor, or someone holding a knife.

I did see that regarding d-cycloserine, but I would prefer something more pure.

I cannot be sure how much of it is due to Keppra, but I am quite sure most of the recent developments are largely to do with it. Everyday, I take 2 grams vit c, a vitamin b complex, 450mg magnesium, 500mg calcium, 50mg manganese, 400-800mg ALCAR + 200-400mg alpha lipoic acid, 400mg SAMe (doctor's best), 500-1,500mg bacopa monneiri, I drink lion's mane tea and have magnesium baths. Notice some of my doses might seem quite high. Some of these supps were for lowering histamine levels, and seems to have helped my general feeling of well being (which is hard to separate from my 'HPPD'). I have wondered if there is a link between my HPPD and histamine levels. My noticeable histadelic symptoms began at the same time as I got HPPD. If you want me to discuss any of those things in particular, why I am taking them, let me know. It is worth mentioning that ALCAR seems to do a lot for me. Actually, anything that touches choline helps (ODISA  ;))

I am not sure what happened to my introduction post.. I haven't been able to find it. Such a shame because I want to compare things to back then...

 

Good luck man! I got some inositol in to trial but started something else first. What doses are you thinking of doing? The high 14-18g (IIRC) ? The only thing is consuming that much of it.. ugh. Have you looked into DMAE?

 

I'm afraid I don't currently possess the intellectual wherewithal to respond as analytically and constructively as I might like, but in short, I think the theory that NMDA antagonists are palliative in the short-term but potentially harmful to long-term repair sounds pretty watertight. There doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest that NMDA-antagonism is a sustainable long term solution. The role of benzos seems to be similar - immediate and often significant relief, but nothing lasting and a variety of side-effects manifesting over time. Naturally their MOA is completely different, but I wonder whether they're potentially inhibiting recovery as well.

 

Regarding fear extinction - I won't pretend to really understand the principles behind it, but I recall it popping up in my research of 7,8-DHF. I'd like to know what you think of this study.

 

I haven't really done much thorough experimentation with cholinergics - perhaps I'll revisit ALCAR in the weeks leading up to NSI-189 arriving. Have you tried CDP-choline at all? In addition to increasing acetylcholine synthesis it also apparently attenuate declines in dopamine secretion due to neurological damage and increases dopamine receptor densities over time. Definitely sounds like it could be useful in certain HPPD cases. Also, do you have an opinion on the Uridine + choline + DHA stack?

 

In that case, would you mind briefly describing your experience with HPPD?

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Ohh I meant that in the worst case I get scammed and get sold Inositol posed as NSI-189, for example. I'm not actually buying Inositol (I hope :P).

I've tried Inositol/Ch Bitartrate 50/50 combination at those high doses.. Never did anything for me, but that may be due to a hell of a lot of choline.

Nope; haven't considered DMAE myself. Good to hear you're feeling better though!

As for NMDA agonism; tried Sarcosine for up to 3 grams B.I.D. with 3-5 grams Glycine to no avail.. Perhaps too weak, perhaps I should try longer. D-cyclo is still an option, but I'd have to cautiously look into dosage, cause potential side effects don't look great (e.g. psychosis). As for Newmind's D-cyclo; if the other 40% is L-cyclo, it wouldn't be too much of an issue, considering L-cyclo has some interesting properties that could be beneficial as well. NRX-1074's structure is expected to be public early 2014, so that's one to look out for.

If neither NSI-189 or 7,8-DHF help me, I think I'm going to go benzo style on this until the rest of my wish list is available. Damned cocaine.

Cheers guys.

Oh, hah! Silly me. 

How long did you try it for; Inositol/Ch Bitartrate + the NMDA agonism stuff? Cheers man :) let's hope it stays like this... Wishing you well, as always.

I think what is interesting with the NMDA agonism is that no worsening of symptoms were experienced by either of us. And I definitely experienced positives, which might have been from the cholinergic mechanism of Nefiracetam, but nonetheless.. no obvious negatives from NMDA agonism.

 

 

I'm afraid I don't currently possess the intellectual wherewithal to respond as analytically and constructively as I might like, but in short, I think the theory that NMDA antagonists are palliative in the short-term but potentially harmful to long-term repair sounds pretty watertight. There doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest that NMDA-antagonism is a sustainable long term solution. The role of benzos seems to be similar - immediate and often significant relief, but nothing lasting and a variety of side-effects manifesting over time. Naturally their MOA is completely different, but I wonder whether they're potentially inhibiting recovery as well.

 

Regarding fear extinction - I won't pretend to really understand the principles behind it, but I recall it popping up in my research of 7,8-DHF. I'd like to know what you think of this study.

 

I haven't really done much thorough experimentation with cholinergics - perhaps I'll revisit ALCAR in the weeks leading up to NSI-189 arriving. Have you tried CDP-choline at all? In addition to increasing acetylcholine synthesis it also apparently attenuate declines in dopamine secretion due to neurological damage and increases dopamine receptor densities over time. Definitely sounds like it could be useful in certain HPPD cases. Also, do you have an opinion on the Uridine + choline + DHA stack?

 

In that case, would you mind briefly describing your experience with HPPD?

I agree with your first point. Well put. I have wondered that - if benzos hinder your brain fixing itself (or do they aid it in restoring the imbalances).

Regarding that study. That is the kind of thing to me that seems really promising for HPPD. 'Modulating emotional memory' sounds exactly like the kind of process that needs to take place. And this drug works in the amygdala, that excites me. "7,8-DHF enhanced both the acquisition of fear and its extinction". I read this as, 'giving your brain the emotional plasticity to recover from trauma'. This disorder is not confined to the visual system; it involves fear circuitry as well. I believe we should do anything we can to allow this to be manipulated, positively. This includes doing things that move you; being with close friends, listening to music, crying, whatever.. all these things, I find, help.

I haven't tried CDP-choline, hadn't really looked into it to be honest. It looks very promising at a glance. Have you tried it? Let me get back to you on that stack, I haven't looked into it.

My experience with HPPD; around the age of 17, four years ago, I began experimenting with various drugs: LSD, mushrooms, MDMA, mephedrone, ketamine, methoxetamine, the 2c's, amphetamines.. many more. I was particularly interested in the psychedelics. I only smoked weed a bit when I was younger and it didn't agree with me so was never really part of my life. I did have a few terrifying experiences on it though during this 'phase'. I probably had around 20-30 big acid trips, 10-20 shrooms and a good few of the rest. I did a hell of a lot, basically. I don't remember having one bad trip (except for a couple on weed, which was rare). At this time of my life I also was deeply depressed due to breaking up with my first love. It took me around 1-2 years to get over fully. One day - I noticed things were still moving. My friend told me about HPPD. It went around three weeks later. Did some more stuff. It came back. At the time I wasn't making good decisions.. anyway, one day, it stuck permanently. Came and went a bit. But then it became really bad and more permanent, more towards the age of 18 (three years ago), and I realised how much it was affecting my life. The last two years up until the last few months were horrible. I hardly went into uni, spent days sleeping; painful to be awake.. you know the story. Visually, I have visual snow, pulsing in the dark, floaters, CEV's (sometimes), I have experienced things pulse in size dramatically back at the worse times, also seen things turn into things like a school of fish swimming towards my face. Used to have trails. I am not sure what else might be relevant.. if you have any questions, let me know :)

Pretty sure I have read your experiences, but do send me a link. 

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Err.. Ch bitartrate+Inositol combo was about a week, but that was one of my first attempts (year or more ago). Sarcosine trial lasted a week.. again; perhaps I should take it longer, but I wanted to do a "flush". Indeed no negatives experienced from NMDAR agonism, so it's at least tolerable. Still think current options are not nearly potent enough though.
Cheers.

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Oh, hah! Silly me. 

How long did you try it for; Inositol/Ch Bitartrate + the NMDA agonism stuff? Cheers man :) let's hope it stays like this... Wishing you well, as always.

I think what is interesting with the NMDA agonism is that no worsening of symptoms were experienced by either of us. And I definitely experienced positives, which might have been from the cholinergic mechanism of Nefiracetam, but nonetheless.. no obvious negatives from NMDA agonism.

 

 

I agree with your first point. Well put. I have wondered that - if benzos hinder your brain fixing itself (or do they aid it in restoring the imbalances).

Regarding that study. That is the kind of thing to me that seems really promising for HPPD. 'Modulating emotional memory' sounds exactly like the kind of process that needs to take place. And this drug works in the amygdala, that excites me. "7,8-DHF enhanced both the acquisition of fear and its extinction". I read this as, 'giving your brain the emotional plasticity to recover from trauma'. This disorder is not confined to the visual system; it involves fear circuitry as well. I believe we should do anything we can to allow this to be manipulated, positively. This includes doing things that move you; being with close friends, listening to music, crying, whatever.. all these things, I find, help.

I haven't tried CDP-choline, hadn't really looked into it to be honest. It looks very promising at a glance. Have you tried it? Let me get back to you on that stack, I haven't looked into it.

My experience with HPPD; around the age of 17, four years ago, I began experimenting with various drugs: LSD, mushrooms, MDMA, mephedrone, ketamine, methoxetamine, the 2c's, amphetamines.. many more. I was particularly interested in the psychedelics. I only smoked weed a bit when I was younger and it didn't agree with me so was never really part of my life. I did have a few terrifying experiences on it though during this 'phase'. I probably had around 20-30 big acid trips, 10-20 shrooms and a good few of the rest. I did a hell of a lot, basically. I don't remember having one bad trip (except for a couple on weed, which was rare). At this time of my life I also was deeply depressed due to breaking up with my first love. It took me around 1-2 years to get over fully. One day - I noticed things were still moving. My friend told me about HPPD. It went around three weeks later. Did some more stuff. It came back. At the time I wasn't making good decisions.. anyway, one day, it stuck permanently. Came and went a bit. But then it became really bad and more permanent, more towards the age of 18 (three years ago), and I realised how much it was affecting my life. The last two years up until the last few months were horrible. I hardly went into uni, spent days sleeping; painful to be awake.. you know the story. Visually, I have visual snow, pulsing in the dark, floaters, CEV's (sometimes), I have experienced things pulse in size dramatically back at the worse times, also seen things turn into things like a school of fish swimming towards my face. Used to have trails. I am not sure what else might be relevant.. if you have any questions, let me know :)

Pretty sure I have read your experiences, but do send me a link. 

 

I'm yet to try CDP Choline, though I have purchased some. Should've been more thorough in my research before doing so though as I believe the primary reason it modulates dopamine and increases neuroreceptor densities is because it breaks down into uridine, which I have also ordered. I guess I can just use it as a somewhat-pricey choline source when I try the uridine stack though, so no harm done.

 

Thank you for sharing your quite-extensive experience! It's quite reassuring (for me at least) to hear of individuals whose drug use was as vast - or more so - than my own. It seems like the majority of cases here were due to a single LSD trip, after which the person immediately stopped using any drugs. Presumably those cases are a little more cut and dry than for those of us who tasted every colour of the rainbow, so to speak. That you're responding quite well to different things is also quite reassuring :)

 

Uhh... This is my rather lengthy, melodramatic introductory forum post, if you're interested.

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Will do! Yes I saw that post; but I'm just going to stick with phosphate doses nonetheless.
Plan is to start with 10mg, then do 10mg increments until I notice negative effects (if I do), then go back one step and stay on that dose, possibly increasing to BID or TID. Oh, and dosing will be sublingual.

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Hmm I'm just gonna funk around a bit the first day; 10 and 20 mg doses spaced 2-3 hours apart.}
If I use 40mg.day I'll have enough for 25 days though, so I think eventually I'll just stick with 20mg BID, or at least until my phosphate batch arrives.
Nothing is set in stone; just gonna play with it and see where it leads me.

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Thanks!
Hmm I think I used 250mg orally (mornings) for like 2 weeks, along with all co-factors (eggs everyday + 2g DHA I believe it was). Never noticed the slightest thing.
Hope it helps you though! Personally I'm kind of letting go of the thought that simple supplements can help.. Really think it's going to be one of the novel substances that might help, not some wishy washy half-assed Piracetam kind of thing. I'm talking a7nAChR agonists, NMDAR agonists, KOR antagonists, neurogenics, and perhaps mAChR agonists.. in any case; something with a lot more 'umph' than the average bro-science "theanine's the shit" type of thing. Sure some things have helped along the way (tDCS, Passiflora, Damiana, Kava Kava, CBD, Coluracetam, etc.), but truth be told I haven't seen anything substantial that has persisted in effects so far. Getting way off topic though, haha. Sorry if that was a buzzkill!
Anyhow, guess I'll see how valid this view is soon.

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  • 2 weeks later...

just want to let you know you are playing Russian roulette with this NSI-189 I read the longevity forums and many scientific papers including pub med and you are messing around with a potentially toxic reaserch chemical we no nothing about really most of the reports I have seen are absolutely placebo ! this all started because I believe  the movie limitless with  its NZT has made people in he pharma world and those in the nootropic world throw good science out the window in search of the big elixir of life, I hope that after all the  hype people who have used themselves as guinea pigs for  this NSi don't end  up any more f uped from the drug or cause more damadge to their brains and get worse hppd im not trying to be a joykill but I need to balane out some of the crazy posts I read on here and these so called group buys coming in packets of l-arginine has anyone had he money to have it tested it all sounds to nuts for me again im not trying to offend I want to find a cure too.

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I disagree. There's no evidence to indicate it is toxic or dangerous so far.

Russian roulette is taking a random party pill or that funny looking blotter from the street dealer.
Though I haven't had this batch tested; I'll give you that.
I rather damage myself trying to find something that helps, than never trying at all.
It's a personal assessment people need to make for themselves; whether the potential benefit is greater than the risk.

Anyway, ~2 weeks in and unfortunately I haven't seen any benefits. Going to up my dose to 40mg BID today and take it from there.
I am, however, much more excited about JDTic and GLYX-13/NRX-1074, and the a7nAChR agonists, in that they're more likely to give results quicker, whereas it is in my understanding that NSI-189 may take a while to take effect. My second batch of NSI-189 should be arriving somewhere soon though.

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  • 2 weeks later...

hey man I understand your need to find help I wish the best for you I just think nsi 189 isnot to be messed with im concerned for you I wouldn't want you or anyone else to get more screqwed up bro at the end  of the day its your hoice but reaserch chems are serious stuff and I don't see good enough literature too want to jump in the deep end with this potentially dangerous substance I also am very sceptical of the group buy not so much of the buyers but of those selling it and shipping it saying its the real thing I hope someone gets it tested cause if there just ripping people of and giving false hope again im not against you or anyone wanting to get better just we need to try to be safe :)

 

cheers chris. 

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Well to each their own opinion. I still believe that progress involves taking risks.
That said; I've quit NSI-189 due to lack of efficacy, although that may have been due to several factors, one of which is that I've only taken it for no longer than 3 weeks.
Also; the group buy on Longecity seems to have fallen through.. The organizer got scammed. I got a refund, but I'd suggest for anyone not to join until it is sorted out.

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  • 1 month later...

Thought I'd pop in to let you guys know that my NSI has arrived! Today's my second day on it and something's definitely happening in my head... It's hard to describe, it's not an especially pleasant sensation, just different. I'm feeling a little more anxious than usual but I think that's due to having taken NAC, which I think I might stop for the moment.

I've only taken about 20mg each day so far, but I'm gonna cap some up for convenience and see how I go moving up to 20mg TID.

Wish me luck! I'll keep you guys posted.

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Looking forward to hearing how it goes for you because in a couple weeks I'm receiving a gram or two; I'm very weary of anything that will stimulate me too much, so I was thinking of first attempting 10mg/day for the first week then maybe going up to 20mg/day.

 

I'm going to speak about this more thoroughly in another thread, but I had my first z-health session today and it was awesome. I think that it has the potential to fix my personal HPPD symptoms, at least to a significant degree. I already feel different (not necessarily a HUGE difference, but a difference nonetheless), and I only did one session. Furthermore, the first half of it was all different assessments as opposed to exercises. I can only imagine what will happen with daily practice and bi-weekly/monthly training sessions/check ups.

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I've gotta say, I'm a bit worried about trying NSI-189. I know this is probably all stemming from my anxiety and, additionally, previous experiences, but I can't help but get past it's partially derived from nicotinamide; I keep getting the feeling that I'm going to take my 'test dose' (just 1mg or so to rule out adverse reactions), then increase the dose a bit and after a week become extremely depressed. It doesn't help that some members of the second group buy have reported increased anxiety, and one asked if NSI can actually cause depression, lol.

 

I'm making a huge investment in neurofeedback, so I'm hoping that goes well. I'm still awaiting to receive an update on my NSI, so we'll see if I even do it - if it can be purchased soon enough I'll get it, but if I can't purchase it within the next week or so I'm just going to save every last dollar for neurofeedback equipment. 

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