The big "if": Coluracetam trial

[onedayillsailagain]

Interestingly, I just had 2 eggs topped with mayonaise and about ~125 mg's Choline Bitartrate (yes I season my food with nootropics sometimes haha).
15 minutes later I'm feeling much better, but I have to see if this lasts. Again, can't rule out placebo, but for now I'm just fine feeling better.

[onedayillsailagain]

It would seem that I'm having rapidly alternating perceptual shifts of sorts. Not necessarily painful to endure, but a bit.. distracting. As if I'm alternating between feeling good/normal, only to seconds later feel strange and DP'ed out again. A strange experience, but nothing horrible. Also as if my point of view is alternating constantly (both literally and figuratively).

I'm wondering whether I should call it a day, or simply take the 30 mg's Colu like I was planning to, or maybe just 20mg's. Supposedly higher ACh levels should help you be more decisive, haha! Really weird though: one moment I'll be having positive thoughts and feeling strong/normal, the next I'll be having somewhat anxious thoughts and feeling weak/strange. Perhaps the shift to normalcy is something that doesn't go as smooth as one would like.

So anyway, I'm gonna go with what the heck here, and just take another 20mg's (I'll try 30 another day). I'll see what happens, and if things go downhill I'll take 125mg's Choline Bitartrate sublingually and see if that helps. If somehow I end up feeling like shit, I'll take 5mg's Oxazepam and call it a day.

Sounds like a plan, no?

[Ghormeh Sabzi]

1. Are you saying are you having moments where you are completely free from DP? 

2. What do you mean by 'substantial visual improvements'? Is there improvement in visual snow and afterimages or any other typical HPPD symptoms, or are you talking about non-standard visual improvements such as clarity, depth perception, contrast, etc?

[onedayillsailagain]

1. No, as they are too transient.. Soon as I was starting feeling normal-er, it would switch back. I did have moments where I feel substantially more normal, but not completely DP free.
2. Sharpness, depth perception, and color saturation were improved, as well as visual acuity. "normal" HPPD symptoms remain rather unaffected, moreover it's not persistent. I was looking at this Persian rug mouse mat thing, and it didn't morph like usual, it just stayed the same plus I felt like I was actually seeing it, rather than just noticing it. But on the larger scale (when I don't focus), stuff still moves. I know, it's pretty vague stuff. Sorry; it comes and goes.

Anyways.. feeling a bit spacey now again, not so much of the pulling/alternating going on.. Fogged out, but it's not the type that's uncomfortable.
I took ~22mg's Colu about an an hour ago, and 250mg's of a 50/50 Choline/Inositol capsule semi-sublingually (apparently it's very acidic to the taste.. yuck) just now. Going to wait half an hour to an hour, and if no changes by then I'm thinking of taking 1 ALCAR (588mg) capsule the regular way (swallowed).

If nothing adverse after that, I'll take another 20mg's Colu, and thus conclude this as a 20mg TID day. Tomorrow I want to do a wash-out day.

[onedayillsailagain]

Well no improvements from either Choline or ALCAR, and I just took another ~23 mg's Colu.
Just very tired. I'm thinking this is overkill.. Anyway, tomorrow I'll do a washout day (I'll be chilling on Damiana instead I suppose).
Nothing really adverse, just spaced and tired out, that's all. Perhaps the day after tomorrow I'll try 10mg TID/QID, or maybe even see if 5mg TID/QID does anything/is better. IIRC best results were from 10-10-20 and 10-20-20-10 so far. Interesting, as the 10-10-20 was pretty decent untill the 20 dose, and the 10-20-20-10 was decent as well, yet the last 20 and 10 didn't seem to do much. Hence, I'm thinking 30mg is the sweet spot apparently. Think I'll start doing 5-10 doses in different orders/frequencies and see how that plays out. As far as I've experienced, more doesn't necessarily equate to better.

To clarify: Today was a 20 TID day, with combinations of Choline and ALCAR. First Choline combo seemed to help a little, but subsequent combinations didn't prove to help.

EDIT: Forgot to mention; today  I've been noticing a continuous tinnitus. I've had this on and off before, but the past few months it hasn't been there or not really noticeable I suppose. Perhaps noteworthy.

[Syntheso]

Bloody hell, finally back here... Guanfacine not here (in the house at least)! Ordered that weeks ago (supposedly dispatched two weeks ago!)
But.. the Coluracetam is here.. you bloody efficient dutch (ordered a couple of days ago).
I have a few calling cards though so probably will be able to get the Guanfacine tomorrow.. woop. Definitely going to start with that so we have reports on different substances.

Ciao

Edit: Damn it's Sunday tomorrow so won't be able to pick up the drugs, if they are the drugs. Well, hardly that long to wait!

[onedayillsailagain]

Hey Synth!
Yeah the Guanfacine would take longer, as I presume it's coming from India or so.
Anyways, curious to read of your experiences with both substances

Today I'm gonna try Coluracetam again. Think I'm gonna start out with a 10mg dose, and see where that leads me. I seem to have a benzo hangover, so I hope it'll clear the fog at least. I'll update later today.

[Syntheso]

Hey Synth!

Yeah the Guanfacine would take longer, as I presume it's coming from India or so.

Anyways, curious to read of your experiences with both substances

Today I'm gonna try Coluracetam again. Think I'm gonna start out with a 10mg dose, and see where that leads me. I seem to have a benzo hangover, so I hope it'll clear the fog at least. I'll update later today.

Hey mate!

From the US.. first class air. Assuming that's what's at the PO. Unless there were customs issues.

S

[onedayillsailagain]

Synth: hope it gets through nonetheless.. Just hope you didn't order from some sketchy pharmacy

Anyways, today I did 10mg Colu TID.. I haven't noticed anything. Has this all been placebo? Fucking hope not.
One thing that definitely puts evaluation off course is the benzo hangover I have..
Wasn't expecting anything this severe, and it would appear I don't tolerate them well.
I've been feeling really spaced out, tired, and more so impaired than usual all day, so I've not been paying attention to any effects.
Hopefully tonight I'll have a good night's rest, and tomorrow will be a better day to evaluate.

Also, I've opened the package of Colu I received out of the blue the other day: Same caramel color, and same speed/flowery smell. Still no word on why they sent me another gram, but I'm down with it. In the meantime the Coluracetam I ordered from Ceretropic should be arriving shortly, which I'm eager to try out. Secretly I'm hoping the stuff I have now is just of inferior quality or something, because so far it has been a love/hate type of thing; working very noticeable one try, and then not at all the next. I'm starting to doubt my experiences and considering it may have been placebo, though I would be very surprised if it was placebo, because I did notice significant improvements. I just don't understand why it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't! Guess that's what I have to find out.

Depending on how I'm feeling tomorrow, I'll try either 5-10mg doses.. Also it would appear that I'll be receiving my CBD a bit later than expected.. bummer. Shouldn't be too long though. Nothing else to add for now, so cheers guys

[LarryC]

I am not sure I fully understand Merkan. The klonopin and Keppra alleviated most symptoms like after images and static and th Sinemet releived symptoms related to dp/dr like 2D vision?  How long did it take to be effective?  How long does it last?  Aren't you supposed to take Sinemet with another med?

Do you still have any other syptons using this combo of meds?

Merkan. Please respond.  Thanks,  Larry

[onedayillsailagain]

So just a quick update:
 

Yesterday I did 10mg OD. I was feeling very strange and unusually anxious all day, even before taking Colu. I don't know why though. Maybe because I'm tapering down on Keppra too fast.

In any case, I'm abstaining from Colu till this straightens out. Feeling more or less the same today. Hoping that it'll sort itself out once I've been on this Keppra dose for a while.. Thinking I'll extend my initial plan of staying on this dose to 2 weeks instead of 1, perhaps even longer. I've no other ideas what could be causing this. Perhaps the residual effects of the oxazepam I took a few days ago, but I doubt it.

Also, with the other Colu coming in soon, I'd rather just wait until it's here and try that instead. More trust in that product than what I'm using now I suppose. So; sorry, but I'm taking a little break from this experiment.

[Sam93]

Hey Odisa,

 

Thought I'd check in and see how things were progressing. Sorry it's not worked out quite the way you've intended and hoped.

 

The fact you have had positive experiences with Coluracetam is a very good sign though, and so hope is far from lost with your hypothesis, at least it's done SOMETHING. Maybe it is indeed a good idea to taper off your Keppra before experimenting further, there may be some unknown interaction going on or some 'negative synergy' that we don't know about. 

 

In any case, I hope things straighten out swiftly.

 

All the best,

Sam.

[Merkan]

Larryc

I believe the answer is in my Keppra thread and the pinned sinemet thread.

1. I dont know since i started them individually for a long time ago. From hours to days to full effect i suppose.

2. It last as long as each substance is active in your body, give or take a day.

3. The trial was conducted with a suportive agent, the sinemet has benefits alone.

I suggest you try for yorself and see what happens to you. Jay have used all of this but only got relief from Clonazepam. The others didn't do anything. Its individual.

[onedayillsailagain]

Thanks Sam

Haven't really been giving it a strict trial either, so perhaps it might prove to work (better) nonetheless.
Yes indeed perhaps my tapering was/is interfering with the effects.. I'm planning on staying on a steady dose (of Keppra) now for a few weeks, so it won't be so much of a wishy-washy thing.

It just so happens that Ceretropic's Coluracetam was just delivered as I was typing this. Though I'd like to try it, I'm actually feeling much less in a funk right now than the past 2 days, so I rather just appreciate that and try the new Colu out when I've been feeling decent for a while. I'll see what I decide.. for now I'm unusually relaxed for no reason at all (maybe the magnesium I took helped? probably just coincidence though.), whilst I've been stressed as hell for no good reason the past 2 days. Something funky going down up in the cranium I suppose, so I'll wait for that to settle down before getting back on the experiment-horse.

Cheers.

[Ghormeh Sabzi]

I withdrew on Keppra at 250mg per week without problems.

 

You should try as few things as possible at the same time. You've got to be patient mate!

 

Does the new stuff look/smell different from the first batch?

[onedayillsailagain]

I know; as I just mentioned in the CBD thread.. I'm trying to work on patience, haha! Thanks for the advice nonetheless.
I'm hoping tomorrow I can get my head level and write up a protocol of supplements to adhere to, and not to deviate from that. Though sometimes I do use things on an as-needed basis, which can cause for questions. It's not like I smoke Passiflora every day at 4:20

Ceretropic's product is a sublingual solution, so there's no way to compare physical characteristics. All I can do is try it

[onedayillsailagain]

Soooo... Took 20mg of Ceretropic's Coluracetam today. What can I say? I've already been having a relatively decent day today, so any psychoactive effects are not that easily noticed by me I suppose. I do feel generally better. As for visual improvements: they are definitely there. Though not so much mitigating the HPPD visual symptoms, my vision is improved. I don't know how else to put it. I still have peripheral fuck-ups of vision, still visual snow, still colored blotches and cobwebs.. just the usual. Though it's not as bad as it can get, that doesn't mean the Coluracetam is improving it. I'm looking forward to trying this in combination with CBD. Considering that I still have anxiety and irritability here and there, it could be that the CBD would mitigate mental/cognitive symptoms, with which I could attribute more perceptual "processing power" to my actual vision instead of my thoughts. A bit wishy-washy stuff, I admit. Just a thought. I.E. hoping the CBD is going to help with the DP/anxiety/brainfog side of the story, so that I can focus more on the visual aspect rather than being entangled in useless thought.

In any case, so far so good and I prefer Ceretropic's product over the other. I'll have some more this afternoon.

EDIT: Another thing I might not have mentioned yet, is that my motor functions seem improved while on Coluracetam. Especially when throwing about random objects and catching them (yes that's my way of testing motoric function). Just quicker to react or so.

[Cupasoup]

Got any update on the coluracetam odisa? And did you already obtain the CBD?

Greetz!

[onedayillsailagain]

No alas I don't. Haven't tried it since my last update for various reasons.. Figured I'd wait for the CBD to arrive, and then see how that effects me, and then adding Coluracetam on top of it. It could still be that with prolonged exposure symptoms may be alleviated; I do not know this. I should be receiving the CBD either tomorrow or Tuesday, so I'm keen on trying that out!

[Syntheso]

Odisa, I came across this today;

http://www.restoreunity.org/increase_eff_dopamine.htm

It is considered that the higher ratio of acetylcholine to dopamine leads to over-stimulating muscle cells and this imbalance contributes to the various disorders of movement found in Parkinson's Disease.

I can't remember the details of your writing, but did you acknowledge this/are you aware? 

[onedayillsailagain]

I really should be getting to bed.. but anyway: No, I have not experienced any involuntary movements or muscle issues of any kind that I would not otherwise have. If anything, I reiterate: motor function was improved, which extends to muscle condition and control. You got yours in yet? I'm thinking of giving mine a another spin tomorrow considering I'm not going to catch much sleep as I need to wake up early in the morning. Maybe it's worth a shot investigating the possibility of combining Colu with Modafinil? Can't remember the exact pharmacology of Moda though.. iirc it was quite vague, but involved limbic stimulation which probably involves dopaminergic mechanisms. Cheers mate.

[Syntheso]

I really should be getting to bed.. but anyway: No, I have not experienced any involuntary movements or muscle issues of any kind that I would not otherwise have. If anything, I reiterate: motor function was improved, which extends to muscle condition and control. You got yours in yet? I'm thinking of giving mine a another spin tomorrow considering I'm not going to catch much sleep as I need to wake up early in the morning. Maybe it's worth a shot investigating the possibility of combining Colu with Modafinil? Can't remember the exact pharmacology of Moda though.. iirc it was quite vague, but involved limbic stimulation which probably involves dopaminergic mechanisms. Cheers mate.

Cool, yeah I would have tried mine earlier but I can't find my scales (it's been a while since I needed those!). I've ordered some in. Indeed, that could be a shout. I've read it a million times, I can't quite remember. IIRC it speeds up dopaminergic mechanisms.. don't quote me on that! Looking forward to trying it

[onedayillsailagain]

Ha I lost one myself too. Anyway, I took Coluracetam today.. I just had quite the unusually clear thought: "I wonder what the effects are of transcranial stimulation on local blood brain barrier permeability?". I know ultra-sound techniques are being developed to temporarily increase BBB permeability, so yeah.. the thought came up. Maybe it's nonsense; I haven't searched anything about it yet, but I thought it would be interesting that if a localized area of the brain would have higher BBB permeability, that for instance, combining right temporo-parietal junction stimulation with Coluracetam might be something interesting.

Anyway, on the effects of Coluracetam today: definitely there. I won't describe them in much detail though.. Currently I'm feeling a bit stimulated, but not in a cumbersome manner. Yeah I'll leave it at that for now, but just wanted to mention that Coluracetam at least produces a significantly noticeable effect, hence perhaps for others it might turn out to be quite the useful tool. By the way; this is on half a dropper (20mg).

[DizzyMike]

odisa,

 

Do you have a post or a sheet somewhere of everything you have tried/taken and the effect it has had on you?

 

All of this stuff is slowly convincing me to study neuroscience after I graduate this year :/

[onedayillsailagain]

Nope I don't alas.. Most of my experiences are scattered throughout various forums (mostly this one and Longecity), some on occasion preserved in my memory. If you have a healthy interest in neuroscience, I'd say definitely go for it! I can't say mine is a genuine interest.. I mean it's very interesting stuff, but at this point I think I might just be more motivated by necessity rather than genuine curiosity.

Anyway: Coluracetam's effects lasted really short! I mean it was undeniably there, but lasted perhaps 2 hours, 2,5 tops. I re-dosed with 20mg after I noticed it was fading.. Hmm didn't produce the same effects as the initial one. When the effects of the first dose tapered off, I noticed what may be called "rebound anxiety".. I.E. simply returning to the state of anxiety I am used to, but telescoped because I was free from it for a short while. After the second dose, that was pulled straight a little, but I can't attest it wasn't due to the normal course of things. The second dose did not bring with it the same pronounced effects as the first. Right now, about 4,5 hours after my last dose, I'm feeling just as usual really. 

All in all, fun stuff to play with, but damn does it last short. Not planning on taking any more today though.
Perhaps next time I'll try dosing 10mg QID again, see how that goes, but I don't think it'll be any time soon.