Bit of an idea for possible CURE. Has some weight to it.

[Fawkinchit]

On 3/8/2018 at 1:09 PM, dasitmane said:

Looking pretty bad guys.

http://www.cell.com/neuron/pdf/S0896-6273(16)30409-3.pdf

ill elaborate on this study later.

Basically if you go through this study it vigorously goes through the steps of showing how MDMA and other amphetamines cause not only axonal damage specifically related to serotonin receptors, but also axonal degeneration(loss). So at this point I'm going to stand my ground and say that HPPD is definitely and unarguably a disease/disorder caused by excitotoxic axonal and potential neuronal degradation. The losses are not seen in MRIs because the damage and losses are selective/scattered. The losses are not recoverable involving axonal degeneration and neuronal death.

When I get a chance I'll try to elaborate on things more proficiently, but at this point I'm pretty much done with my research. Ill try and go over the areas that are effected, how, why, and why even with neurogenesis its an incurable disorder, though might be slightly improvable. Also I hope that we can get a sticky filled with proper information warning people of the dangers of using hallucinogens and other drugs. There are a lot of people that will argue that these compounds do not cause neuronal damage, and they are very entirely wrong, I believe everyone has the right to accurate information on this matter and hope to help them not make the same terrible decision that I did. 

Edited March 10, 2018 by dasitmane

[Fawkinchit]

I'd like to add briefly that if anyone would like to continue the research. Basically at this point finding a way to repair axonal tracts is the biggest impediment. Also finding information on axonal tract formations. Growth cones. Etc...

[Fawkinchit]

Heres a really interesting article talking about how LSD gets stuck in the receptors. Something that I once theorized is that maybe the neurons dont have the capability to break down all the hallucinogens and they remain in the receptor sites. I considered it a bit ridiculous, but this article gives credence to its possibility.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/lsd-brain-cells-held-tight-hallucinagenic-psychedlic-drug-lysergic-acid-diethylamide-scientists-a7547461.html

“Once LSD gets in the receptor, a lid comes over the LSD, so it's basically trapped in the receptor and can't get out,” Professor Roth said.

“LSD takes a really long time to get on the receptor, and then once it gets on, it doesn't get off.”

[Fawkinchit]

Also there is a case here of 8 people who took INSANE amounts of LSD by accident, most went comatose. None died, but 5 of them during a one year follow up claimed absolutely no long term effects....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1129381/?page=2

[Guest]

You guys ever think that maybe sitting around on this forum talking about this receptor or that receptor or that brain region could be contributing to the problem?

I'm so glad I don't sit around and read this shit anymore.

You don't have brain damage. You have anxiety.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Guest

[dayum_son]

Yeah right. Anxiety. Wow you've just solved our issue ! Let's take anxiolytics to stop HPPD or at least make it temporarily disappear ! Guess what, it doesn't work.

I get your point about rotting on this forum expecting something to change, and you're right. Go out, have fun with your friends and try to move on. However, a lot of HPPD sufferers can't do that.

I can ignore the disorder pretty easily as it is mainly some visual snow and after images, but many people have permanent wall breathing and other stuff that they just can't ignore.

So while I get your point about "sitting around doing nothing", telling random false information on a forum filled with desperate people is just plain stupid.

[dayum_son]

Oh and thanks dasitmane for all the time and effort you put into researching this disorder. It may have not led to a cure, but it was still a great and very interesting read. Thank you.

[Fawkinchit]

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/61962-neurologist-suggested-an-autoimmune-connection/

 

 

a great deal of HPPD sufferers report severe allergies and immune disorders

[K.B.Fante]

I've posted about autoimmunity before but didn't get too much in terms of responses. There's a good number of people here who have them, including myself, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a connection, especially considering how many people have anxiety which is essentially the emotional version of autoimmunity. If your brain and body are constantly looking for invaders and then actually find them it makes sense they're so prepared to fight that they actually cause damage to themselves in the process. 

[Guest]

On 4/3/2018 at 6:00 PM, dayum_son said:

Yeah right. Anxiety. Wow you've just solved our issue ! Let's take anxiolytics to stop HPPD or at least make it temporarily disappear ! Guess what, it doesn't work.

I get your point about rotting on this forum expecting something to change, and you're right. Go out, have fun with your friends and try to move on. However, a lot of HPPD sufferers can't do that.

I can ignore the disorder pretty easily as it is mainly some visual snow and after images, but many people have permanent wall breathing and other stuff that they just can't ignore.

So while I get your point about "sitting around doing nothing", telling random false information on a forum filled with desperate people is just plain stupid.

Yeah, and once most people move on with their lives and ignore those symptoms 99% of them go away. In most cases. Of course there could be the one or two exceptions who were particularly psychologically damaged and can't let go.

But keep believing it's neurological/brain damage when people who don't even do drugs get visual snow and similar symptoms. Some people are even born with it.

Also, you're right. Taking an anxiolytic when you've been traumatized with drug induced PTSD isn't the answer. Loading up soldiers coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan with meds doesn't work. Why would it work for us?

Edited April 9, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

"On the other hand, brain cells are exceptionally temperature-sensitive, with the appearance of structural abnormalities at ~40°C, i.e., only three degrees above a normal baseline (Chen et al., 2003; Iwagami, 1996; Oifa and Kleshchnev, 1985; Sharma and Hoopes, 2003; Yamamoto and Zhu, 1998). Due to temperature dependence of most physico-chemical processes governing neural activity (see [Kiyatkin, 2010] for review), hyperthermia also enhances the toxic effects of METH on brain cells. From animal experiments, it is well known that METH is much more toxic at high ambient temperatures, whereas toxicity is diminished by low ambient temperatures [Alberts and Sonsalla, 1995; Ali et al., 1994; Bowyer et al., 1993; Farfel and Seiden, 1995; Gordon et al., 1991; Miller and O’Callaghan, 1994, 2003). Although it is reasonable to assume that more harmful effects of METH seen in warm, humid conditions are associated with intra-brain heat accumulation due to enhanced brain metabolism diminished heat dissipation, direct data on brain temperature fluctuations induced by METH and related drugs as well as on environmental modulation of these drug-induced temperature fluctuations are limited.

In addition to the direct effects of high temperatures on brain cells and potentiation of toxic effects of drug metabolites, brain hyperthermia appears to alter permeability of the blood-brain barrier (BBB). The BBB is an important border that maintains stability of the brain environment and protects neural cells from potentially dangerous ionic and chemical perturbations occurring in the body (Rapoport, 1976; Zlokovic, 2008). Although leakage of the BBB has been documented during environmental warming (Cervos-Navarro et al., 1998; Sharma et al., 1992), intense physical exercise (Watson et al., 2005), various types of stress (Esposito et al., 2001; Ovadia et al., 2001; Sharma and Dey, 1986) and morphine withdrawal (Sharma and Ali, 2006), data on drug-induced alterations in the BBB and its relationship to brain temperature are limited. Moreover, the basic relations between BBB permeability and temperature remain unclear.

In this work we present and discuss several sets of recent data on environmental modulation of the physiological effects of METH and MDMA and a tight link between brain temperature, acute drug toxicity, and alterations of the BBB. We demonstrate that brain hyperthermia induced by psychomotor stimulant drugs plays an important role in the triggering of several pathophysiological mechanisms underlying acute and chronic drug neurotoxicity."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687356/

If you guys had neurotoxicity you would essentially be retarded. There was this guy who took ecstasy at a nightclub once and ended up having a permanent speech impediment and couldn't stop moving his arm. You didn't suffer neurotoxicity or brain damage. You had an acute traumatic psychological reaction of extreme panic and fear caused by (Your drug of choice) and are now suffering chronic drug induced PTSD.

Why do you think people get it from so many different drugs? My friend got it from weed. From fucking weed. One of the most physically benign substances on earth. You know what happened to him that night? He had a severe panic attack where he thought he was going to die.

[danjoking]

5 hours ago, dasitmane said:

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/61962-neurologist-suggested-an-autoimmune-connection/

 

 

a great deal of HPPD sufferers report severe allergies and immune disorders

So that’s explain why in my blood test I had high 

CRP C-Reactive Protein 

and ERS high

its related to autoimmune 

[Fawkinchit]

8 hours ago, danjoking said:

So that’s explain why in my blood test I had high 

CRP C-Reactive Protein 

and ERS high

its related to autoimmune 

Yah I’m really starting to think this is it. It would make a lot of sense. The question really at this point is does the immune response damage neurons, or does it just learn to continue abnormal reaction.

[Fawkinchit]

10 hours ago, TheMythos said:

"On the other hand, brain cells are exceptionally temperature-sensitive, with the appearance of structural abnormalities at ~40°C, i.e., only three degrees above a normal baseline (Chen et al., 2003; Iwagami, 1996; Oifa and Kleshchnev, 1985; Sharma and Hoopes, 2003; Yamamoto and Zhu, 1998). Due to temperature dependence of most physico-chemical processes governing neural activity (see [Kiyatkin, 2010] for review), hyperthermia also enhances the toxic effects of METH on brain cells. From animal experiments, it is well known that METH is much more toxic at high ambient temperatures, whereas toxicity is diminished by low ambient temperatures [Alberts and Sonsalla, 1995; Ali et al., 1994; Bowyer et al., 1993; Farfel and Seiden, 1995; Gordon et al., 1991; Miller and O’Callaghan, 1994, 2003). Although it is reasonable to assume that more harmful effects of METH seen in warm, humid conditions are associated with intra-brain heat accumulation due to enhanced brain metabolism diminished heat dissipation, direct data on brain temperature fluctuations induced by METH and related drugs as well as on environmental modulation of these drug-induced temperature fluctuations are limited.

In addition to the direct effects of high temperatures on brain cells and potentiation of toxic effects of drug metabolites, brain hyperthermia appears to alter permeability of the blood-brain barrier (BBB). The BBB is an important border that maintains stability of the brain environment and protects neural cells from potentially dangerous ionic and chemical perturbations occurring in the body (Rapoport, 1976; Zlokovic, 2008). Although leakage of the BBB has been documented during environmental warming (Cervos-Navarro et al., 1998; Sharma et al., 1992), intense physical exercise (Watson et al., 2005), various types of stress (Esposito et al., 2001; Ovadia et al., 2001; Sharma and Dey, 1986) and morphine withdrawal (Sharma and Ali, 2006), data on drug-induced alterations in the BBB and its relationship to brain temperature are limited. Moreover, the basic relations between BBB permeability and temperature remain unclear.

In this work we present and discuss several sets of recent data on environmental modulation of the physiological effects of METH and MDMA and a tight link between brain temperature, acute drug toxicity, and alterations of the BBB. We demonstrate that brain hyperthermia induced by psychomotor stimulant drugs plays an important role in the triggering of several pathophysiological mechanisms underlying acute and chronic drug neurotoxicity."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687356/

If you guys had neurotoxicity you would essentially be retarded. There was this guy who took ecstasy at a nightclub once and ended up having a permanent speech impediment and couldn't stop moving his arm. You didn't suffer neurotoxicity or brain damage. You had an acute traumatic psychological reaction of extreme panic and fear caused by (Your drug of choice) and are now suffering chronic drug induced PTSD.

Why do you think people get it from so many different drugs? My friend got it from weed. From fucking weed. One of the most physically benign substances on earth. You know what happened to him that night? He had a severe panic attack where he thought he was going to die.

Mythos, I'm really having trouble putting together how the study you posted applies to the theories you have. All I can gather is that you believe that because there aren't increases in internal heat, that there is no neuronal loss? Do you believe that that is the only potential circumstance for neuronal loss? lmao. Also, I dont think you completely understand the condition of PTSD, which based on your posts, doesn't surprise me. I dont think you understand that study either. I think its really offense to try to demotivate people working hard trying to find the cause and cure for this detrimental and very real disease. I'm glad you'll never be a physician, because the best advice I can see you giving cancer patients, is to ignore whats happening to them. Its not real if we dont acknowledge it correct? Lmao but those patients will still die. Honestly your theories are so profoundly flawed that all I can assume is that you wake up every morning believing its not real to FEEL better, not actually become better. Which if that is your way of handling it, thats fine with me, but dont go around trying to criticize people trying to help themselves and others in a REAL way in a REAL world for a very REAL condition.

Also you should not speak of your "theory" as definitive, when in fact you have literally zero proof for anything you have said. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by dasitmane

[danjoking]

3 hours ago, dasitmane said:

Yah I’m really starting to think this is it. It would make a lot of sense. The question really at this point is does the immune response damage neurons, or does it just learn to continue abnormal reaction.

How we can check it? 

I came across this “ibuprofen cure my visual snow”

“I've had visual snow and shimmering and arc's for years and years and just pegged it to doing LSD a couple of times when I was a teen”

https://www.google.co.il/amp/s/www.tapatalk.com/groups/thosewithvisualsnow/viewtopic.php%3ft=7197&amp=1

ibuprofen it’s knowing painkillers if you have an autoimmune condition

 

its have to be some light on this HPPD disease my fingers crossed!

Edited April 9, 2018 by danjoking

[Joseph C.]

.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Joseph C.

[Danny13]

I’ve had numerous blood tests regarding autoimmune problems and inflammation. All came back normal. My crp was very low!

Anti-inflammatory drugs have zero effect on my hppd. 

[Fawkinchit]

18 minutes ago, Danny13 said:

I’ve had numerous blood tests regarding autoimmune problems and inflammation. All came back normal. My crp was very low!

Anti-inflammatory drugs have zero effect on my hppd. 

There could still be random cases of reactions to hallucinogens, just be cause you dont have common allergies, doesn't mean youre not allergic to one thing. LIke people allergic to peanuts.

[Danny13]

I wonder if autoimmune responses and inflammation are linked in anyway to the white matter lesions found on my mri? 

[Fawkinchit]

2 hours ago, Danny13 said:

I wonder if autoimmune responses and inflammation are linked in anyway to the white matter lesions found on my mri? 

How bad were your lesions? It seems like a lot of HPPD sufferers are also reporting white matter lesions related to migraines.

[Fawkinchit]

23 hours ago, thelostreceptor said:

That's interesting. Ibuprofen gives me a calmness and makes me forget about the symptoms for a while

That is really weird. I dont know if I have ever taken it. Im scared to try it lmao. Has anyone else tried it?

I hardly doubt that that person had recovery from the Ibuprofen, sounds more like he had a migraine.

[danjoking]

1 hour ago, dasitmane said:

That is really weird. I dont know if I have ever taken it. Im scared to try it lmao. Has anyone else tried it?

I hardly doubt that that person had recovery from the Ibuprofen, sounds more like he had a migraine.

I dont think he had migraine because he wrote 

I've had visual snow and shimmering and arc's for years and years and just pegged it to doing LSD a couple of times when I was a teen”

 

[Fawkinchit]

38 minutes ago, danjoking said:

I dont think he had migraine because he wrote 

I've had visual snow and shimmering and arc's for years and years and just pegged it to doing LSD a couple of times when I was a teen”

 

Maybe there was a misunderstanding? I was just saying that his symptoms of the event of just that one night seemed to be related to that of migraines, clearly his visual snow and other disturbances prior were due to the LSD.

[danjoking]

1 minute ago, dasitmane said:

Maybe there was a misunderstanding? I was just saying that his symptoms of the event of just that one night seemed to be related to that of migraines, clearly his visual snow and other disturbances prior were due to the LSD.

Yea but how migraine in one night can clear all visual snow of many years with ibuprofen 

[Fawkinchit]

1 minute ago, danjoking said:

Yea but how migraine in one night can clear all visual snow of many years with ibuprofen 

I dont have an answer for what happened, clearly some people can try ibuprofen, also he didn't leave any other posts following. Its possible that his visual snow and other disturbances returned. We really dont know.