Bit of an idea for possible CURE. Has some weight to it.

[disguyhere]

im not gonna jump in on either side of this debate.. but i'd suggest if you want people to take you seriously qaiphyx, that you be careful not to insult the people you want to engage in civil debate with. you gotta know you have theories that sound far off center. i'm in the same exact boat as you as far as my own personal theories go. but any time you cross the line from understanding that it is a theory, to pushing it as truth or fact... and then throw out a comment that can be construed as insulting even if not intended as such.. its going to make people not take you as seriously which is a shame because when it comes to the brain we need more people who think from left field. otherwise we will never understand the ways the brain really works. 

[Fawkinchit]

Ok here is the full laid out explanation of HPPD

 

The Cerebellum Connection

 

In the rat cerebellum, 5ht2a receptors have been found in the Golgi cells of the granular layer, and in the Purkinje cells. This shows that the cerebellum will be effect in specific cells under the influence of hallucinogens.

 

Purkinje cells are a class of GABAergic neurons located in the cerebellar cortex. 

 

People with cerebellar ataxia may initially present with poor balance, which could be demonstrated as an inability to stand on one leg or perform tandem gait. As the condition progresses, walking is characterized by a widened base and high stepping, as well as staggering and lurching from side to side. People with damage to the cerebellum from strokes also have vertigo and other similar balance disorders and problems have been reported with anxiety I believe as well.

 

Symptoms of HPPD have been known to exhibit balance disorders. This gives an obvious full line of connections for the cerebellum being a critical center that is effected by HPPD.

 

Now on to golgi cells in the cerebellum

 

Golgi cells are inhibitory interneurons found within the granular layer of the cerebellum. 

 

This ties in with the inhibitory feedback that I was talking about in the beginning of this thread(push pull idea), that there may have been damage to these inhibitory cells, and the brain now lacks the ability to modulate anxiety!

 

That sums up most of the cerebellum

 

Lets take a look at other areas in the brain affected.

 

Newer findings reveal that psychoactive effects of classic psychedelics are mediated by the receptor heterodimer 5-HT2A–mGlu2 and not by monomeric 5-HT2A receptors.

 

The mGluRs perform a variety of functions in the central and peripheral nervous systems: For example, they are involved in learning, memory, anxiety, and the perception of pain. They are found in pre- and postsynaptic neurons in synapses of the hippocampus, cerebellum, and the cerebral cortex, as well as other parts of the brain and in peripheral tissues.

 

This shows other areas in the brain that are going to be negatively affected by hallucinogens. The hipp, cere, cere cortext, and other parts, most likely visual related. 

 

So, now we know all the areas of the brain being affected by hallucinogens. 

 

Lets take an even closer looks at where and what the 5ht2a receptors do.

 

5-HT2A is expressed widely throughout the central nervous system. It is expressed near most of the serotoninergic terminal rich areas, including neocortex(mainly prefrontal, parietal, and somatosensory cortex) and the olfactory tubercle. Especially high concentrations of this receptor on the apical dendrites of pyramidal cells in layer V of the cortex may modulate cognitive processes, by enhancing glutamate release followed by a complex range of interactions with the 5-HT1A, GABAA, adenosine A1, AMPA, mGluR2/3, mGlu5, and OX2 receptors. In the rat cerebellum, the protein has also been found in the Golgi cells of the granular layer, and in the Purkinje cells. In the periphery, it is highly expressed in platelets and many cell types of the cardiovascular system, in fibroblasts, and in neurons of the peripheral nervous system. Additionally, 5-HT2A mRNA expression has been observed in human monocytes.

 

I bolded the parts that are the more important keys to showing what causes HPPD. Not also that the golgi and purkinje cells are brought up again. Also note that one of the main functions of the 5ht2a receptor when activated is to enhance the release of glutamate, and effects the AMPA receptor.

 

Lets tie it all up now.

 

Excitotoxicity is the pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged and killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate and similar substances. This occurs when receptors for the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate such as the NMDA receptor and AMPA receptor are overactivated by glutamatergic Storm.

 

So, hallucinogens extremely high agonist(push) affinity for 5ht2a receptors will overstimulate the receptor, causing a higher than normal release of glutamate, leading to a glutamatergeic storm of all the areas listed above, thus leading to excitotoxicity of those areas, and causing apoptosis to occur to specific sites in the brain. The brain then no longer has the ability to regulate certain stimuli and electromagnetism. Hence, the symptoms of HPPD.

 

That should clear it all up for you guys.

[Guest]

Wow

[Fawkinchit]

Thanks hope. I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Year2]

I think you guys are oversimplifying the brain, and the way it's chemicals interact with each other. The deeper you dig the less simple it becomes. Even companies that produce drugs for the brain (read: SSRIs) are unsure of how these work. Hell, they can't even measure the levels of seretonin in the brain; only the gut. 

 

I don't mean to discourage amateur research, but I think the premise of this thread "push/pull, north south," is taking a complex problem and pairing it with a simple solution. I doubt there is a way to reverse what we have done, but there is possibly a crutch that exists to help us. The brain wants to return to homeostasis, as does everything else in nature. I truly believe that brain reconditioning and "la la la, if I don't acknowledge the symptoms they will go away" will heal us. You're body was intelligent enough to create you from a fetus, and it knows that something is wrong now. If you give it the time, vitamins, and environment it needs, it will heal.

 

Thinks about the idea of brain plasticity. Anything from, exercise to diet will change your brain. Now, compare your lifestyle (thought pattern, activity level, nutrition, stress) of yourself now to how you were before hppd. A lot different, hey? Your reactions to your symptoms now could be perpetuating them, leading to some horrible hppd cycle.

 

My point being, I doubt a chemical will "push" your brain back to where it was. However, it will find it's way back if you let it.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

I have 'had' HPPD for 32 years and I completely agree with this poster.

 

I don't come to this forum very often - about 3 or 4 times a year, mainly to see if there's been any progress and also to lend support to anyone who may have just 'got' this often confusing thing.  For the first 2 years I did the usual round of eye doctors with the same results you've all had.  I tried dozens of homeopathic medicines.  For anxiety a doctor gave me Valium.  Getting out of it on further chemicals isn't going to do it.

 

In the end I realized that this was now 'me'.  You can't go back to the 'real you'.  I had a tendency to look back on my glory days as a late teen with rose colored specs, but the period I was looking at, I was usually out of it all the time on various substances.  And why exactly was I self medicating anyway?

 

The only way through is forward.  Do what you want in life and face it down.  It's really not easy for anyone and a large percentage of the 'normal' population are miserable and hopped up on anxiety/depression meds and/or drinking every night.  Society offers us very little.  Marriage/house/cars etc...are the carrots most people chase endlessly without getting anywhere. 

 

The poster who said 'you don't want to end up middle aged and grey with HPPD' is part of the reason I avoid this place.  I'm not making light of his problems but hey...I'm just going through divorce, have lost full time custody of my beloved son and I'm 51 years of age.  I'm still looking to the future, have a wonderful girlfriend who appreciates me for who I am and what I do and I look forward to the next 32 years.  My ex, hasn't got HPPD and never did too many drugs but does have a miserable drink problem and is constantly unhappy despite a fairly privaleged upbringing and many opportunities.

 

Don't waste your life waiting for a cure and accept yourself for who you are, not who you were.  I think it's admirable that people are putting their heads together here and asking questions but it's the negative obsessing that drags you down.  As the above poster said, pretend you're ok and eventually you will be.  I still get black/white microbe like specs if I look for them (I rarely do) but the awful DP/DR stopped after a couple of years.  I am prone to stress (but maybe I always was).  I teach and the worst symptom that comes back occasionally is an inability to form words without slurring or stuttering.  I saw one other post regarding this.  As I have to lecture classes this can be difficult at times (happens once or twice a year) but experience has told me to soldier on and it goes away after a few days.

 

Do yoga.  Excercise.  Meditate.  Fall in love.  Be fascinated in the world.  Confront your worst social fears and you'll be ok.  I embarrassed myself with my weirdness for years but it gets better.

 

One interesting thing is that I never remember HPPD as part of any life events or experiences after the first couple of years.  The first two I remember as a bad trip.  But I decided to move on.

Good luck.

[Guest]

http://www.omicsonline.org/2157-7013/2157-7013-2-109.php

[Guest]

Some of us are not as fortunate and functional as u

[onedayillsailagain]

hope1: Nice find! However that would mean intracerebroventricular injections/transplantation, which in my understanding, is an injection into the brain... Which by all means isn't likely to be a non-invasive procedure, however if the treatment is perfected, it could very well be beneficial. Though some questions arise, such as if it would be beneficial if not administered acutely after excitotoxicity? I mean I've thought about something like this, though personally I rather not have injections into my brain. On the upside; I recently read an article in which it was portrayed how researchers are developing novel mechanisms of CNS administration and enhanced BBB permeability, so perhaps that could be an interesting avenue to combine the two. Can't find the article though; I've read it in Scientific American.

[Fawkinchit]

Edited 

[disguyhere]

self medication got you here.. if you really think its going to get you out of here go right ahead but if history is any indication its not gonna go as well as you think

[Year2]

Or we could try fixing it ourselves....

 

As I said, that's admirable but if you see your life in a negative light until that happens, you may waste much of it.

[Fawkinchit]

asdf

[disguyhere]

This is one of the dumbest, most ignorant, negative statements I've seen in this thread so far. 

 

 

You mean... see it in reality? Live in the dream you want, but for me reality its something I wake up to every day, and if I can change it I will.

 

 

 

I honestly cant even believe there is any negative or passive input in this thread. What a pathetic state of mentality.

 

 

dude.. you're allowed to believe anything you want in this world but if your reaction to even polite criticism is that kind of insult, you're never going to win support for your ideas. i dont know what you think is ignorant in what i said. you got yourself here did you not? also if you look back in history do you not see many many many situations where a doctor tested shit out on themselves (a doctor. someone with training even) and the end result was making it worse. not saying you can't find a way to make it "better".. but if you talk of a cure you better be able to take some feedback because it's a bold statement to make. 

 

i know hppd can make us all snappy and prone to comments like this so i'm going to give you a pass still in my book. im not saying your ideas are faulty or wrong.. im just saying if your going to talk about something like fixing yourself, you need to be willing to take criticism . discoveries arent made by being propped up by people that buy into every word you say. They are made by fighting back against the people who told you it's impossible, and you're wrong, and blah blah blah. dont be so quick to dismiss the naysayers cause they could be the ones that help you get to the solution in the end

[Guest]

HPPD can make us "Snappy?"

JFC...

[disguyhere]

snappy snippy prone to quick argument.. etc.. at least from what i've notice.

[jls274]

I have a J.D., but no Ph.D. My HPPD actually subsided basically back to my pre-hallucinogen self while in law school. My catalyst for recovery was tramadol it seems. Dont know that for certain, but my symptoms got better once i got on tramadol. I was abusing the tramadol, but i didnt care, was wayyyyy better than detatchment, depression, anxiety, agoraphobia, and all the disturbing visuals. My aunt is actually a nuero surgeon, but she is so straight lace i wouldnt even know how to get to a conversation about HPPD.

[Guest]

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/ms-new-drug-trial-for-rHIgM22-now-enrolling-volunteers-091813

[Guest]

http://www.heraldonline.com/2013/09/23/5237170/chrysalis-biotherapeutics-inc.html

[Guest]

http://www.heraldonline.com/2013/09/23/5237170/chrysalis-biotherapeutics-inc.html

[Guest]

http://www.heraldonline.com/2013/09/23/5237170/chrysalis-biotherapeutics-inc.html

[Guest]

GALVESTON, TEXAS, SEPT. 23, 2013 — /PRNewswire/ -- Today, Chrysalis BioTherapeutics, Inc., announced receipt of a $1.5m contract from the National Cancer Institute (NCI) to continue its development of Chrysalin® to mitigate radiotherapy-induced damage to normal brain tissue. Radiotherapy is a primary tool for controlling tumor growth, yet damage to surrounding normal tissues limit the amount of radiation that can be used to kill tumors. Moreover, side-effects of radiotherapy can have long lasting effects on patients especially in the brain where radiation can affect learning, memory and physical functions.

(Logo: http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20130919/MM83393LOGO)

According to SEER Cancer Statics, nearly one in 161 people will be diagnosed with brain or nervous system cancer during their lifetime. Finding ways to mitigate damage from radiotherapy or restore neural function following radiotherapy may allow more effective cancer treatment to increase survival and improve quality-of-life for survivors.

This project is a collaboration between Chrysalis BioTherapeutics, Inc., Baylor College of Medicine (BCM), and the University of Texas Medical Branch (UTMB). Pre-clinical results indicate that Chrysalin® treatment restores radiation-damaged neural integrity and promotes neurogenesis in the hippocampus. "These effects of Chrysalin® may be very important," said Dr. Mostafa Waleed Gaber, Associate Professor at Baylor College of Medicine and Co-Director of the Small Animal Imaging Facility at Texas Children's Hospital, "especially in children where successful radiotherapy treatment of brain tumors may have life-long effects on cognitive function."

Chrysalin® is a naturally occurring regenerative peptide that is being developed by Chrysalis BioTherapeutics under world-wide license from UTMB to mitigate effects of nuclear radiation and radiotherapy. "If we can reduce side effects of radiotherapy in the brain and other tissues, we can use more effective radiotherapy protocols to kill tumors, save lives, and improve quality-of-life." said Dr. Darrell Carney, CEO of Chrysalis BioTherapeutics, Inc.

About Chrysalis. Chrysalis is a privately held early-clinical-stage biopharmaceutical company developing a thrombin peptide drug platform to mitigate effects of radiation, improve tissue regeneration, and treat myocardial and cardiovascular disease. Chrysalin® was originally developed by Dr. Carney at UTMB and has been tested in human clinical trials (dermal healing and bone fracture repair) with no adverse side effects. For more information on Chrysalis visit http://www.chrysbio.com.

Media Contact: Kira Blackwell, 409-497-4083, kblackwell@chrysbio.com

This research is fully funded by the National Cancer Institute. For more information on the NCI, visit http://www.cancer.gov/.

SOURCE Chrysalis Biotherapeutics, Inc.

ORDER REPRINT

Read more here: http://www.heraldonline.com/2013/09/23/5237170/chrysalis-biotherapeutics-inc.html#storylink=cpy

[mgrade]

Qaiphyx brought to my attention 5ht2a inverse agonists.  It was a great success in FDA trials.  And because of his ideas i invested in a stock that went up 1000%.  

Thank you!  ....but ofc the money is not as important as something that will help us and other people with nerve based problems.  

 

This is what I have been interested in now:  a treatment for MDD and stem cells.  The treatment for MDD is a drug called NSI-189.   I'm not sure we have mentioned it before  but there are official trials being performed as we speak.  And i found a site where people were getting the drug from chemical companies and this is some of their "opinions":  http://208.71.46.190/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=longecity+nsi-189&fr=yfp-t-140&rs=0&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=longecity+nsi-189&d=4573935196046048&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=y653-FeiyYof_A2CyQ0KTNLrnI9JNkzn&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=VNrvcJFPLC2J_zIR6jbtCw--

 

The company behind these therapies is neuralstem. 

[onedayillsailagain]

I am / will be trying to join the NSI-189 group buy.

[Guest]

Let's form our own.

The reserve list and waiting list is too long.

Let's get the name of the European Supplier and go from there.

[Fawkinchit]

Qaiphyx brought to my attention 5ht2a inverse agonists.  It was a great success in FDA trials.  And because of his ideas i invested in a stock that went up 1000%.  

Thank you!  ....but ofc the money is not as important as something that will help us and other people with nerve based problems.  

 

This is what I have been interested in now:  a treatment for MDD and stem cells.  The treatment for MDD is a drug called NSI-189.   I'm not sure we have mentioned it before  but there are official trials being performed as we speak.  And i found a site where people were getting the drug from chemical companies and this is some of their "opinions":  http://208.71.46.190/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=longecity+nsi-189&fr=yfp-t-140&rs=0&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=longecity+nsi-189&d=4573935196046048&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=y653-FeiyYof_A2CyQ0KTNLrnI9JNkzn&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=VNrvcJFPLC2J_zIR6jbtCw--

 

The company behind these therapies is neuralstem. 

 

Wow! Thats great Mg. Ha.

 

Just wanted to check up and see how everyone is doing. Been a while since I have been here. Hope you're all doing well.