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My theory on the length of HPPD recovery


Sam

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It seems to me that if you get HPPD during a short period of time, you are more likely to improve faster than if it took you longer to develope it.

The latest research indicates that HPPD is caused by the downregulation of GABA receptors in visual cortex of the brain. This interupts with sensory gating because it prevents inhibitury neurons from doing their job. Basically, when you are on psychedelics, there is an excess of neurotransmitters released in your brain. As a result, your brain learns to deal with this by reducing the amount of receptors you have so the neurostrasmitters from the psychedilics have lesser affect on your brain. I guess if you get HPPD after only a few uses of hallucinogens, that means that your brain regulates receptors faster than people who take a long time to develope HPPD. It makes sense that if your brain adapted quickly and downregulated your receptor, it would also adapt quickly by upregulating them and therefore reducing or eliminating HPPD symptoms.

By the way I am no expert and I am just posting this to see what others know about this topic.

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my anxiety/occasional drdp gives me wierd ideas...some of them have been similar to this, along the lines of " if u took drugs for a year u get hppd for a year " but those were irrational. The way youve put it actually makes alot of sense. Ferret got hppd from one use, 5 montbs later is normal. I took psychs like 10 times. Iv seen improvement already but I reckon it could take a year or so. Would make sense

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I hope not, seeing as it took me like 6 months to develop any sort of recognizable HPPD after my last trip. That would suck.

Did it just come on by its own or did something like weed trigger it? I am asking this because I have mild hppd and it's been two months. I am king of worried that it's going to worse.

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Im pretty sure it was weed. I smoked a fat bowl with a friend and I tripped balls, before i was so sensitive I would take a hit or two and just chill, but this was just between us two, and after that it kinda escalated. It's just really weird, it was kinda spontaneous in that I had been smoking weed and drinking for like 5 to 6 months after my last trip, and it just sorta came out of nowhere and has been slowly worsening despite my sobriety, its really scary.

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Im pretty sure it was weed. I smoked a fat bowl with a friend and I tripped balls, before i was so sensitive I would take a hit or two and just chill, but this was just between us two, and after that it kinda escalated. It's just really weird, it was kinda spontaneous in that I had been smoking weed and drinking for like 5 to 6 months after my last trip, and it just sorta came out of nowhere and has been slowly worsening despite my sobriety, its really scary.

Wow. I am still amazed that it can remain dormant for months and get triggered out of nowhere months or years later. My HPPD started out a week after my last trip when I was using adderall to study. It was very mild and barely noticeable. I've been sober too but its been getting worse for the past couple of months. I still consider my HPPD to be mild compared to everyone else but I have to live in fear of getting worse.

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Ur the same as me. Still worsening in complete sobriety 4.5 months on. Mine kicked im the morning after an mdma mxe session

I think I have an idea about why HPPD seems to get worse on its own. Suppose you get HPPD and your brain is down regulating your receptors and is only producing 75% as many receptors as it did before. Right after your brain starts doing this, you still have the receptors that are left over from the time you didn't have HPPD. But as they wear down, only 75% of them are replaced due to down regulation. So once you first develop HPPD, you still have most of your receptors but they slowly decrease in number and stabilize at the rate at which they are being replaced (75% in this example).

I may be way off. One problem with this explanation is when HPPD is "triggered" in a matter of hours.

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I think thats a good explanation on some peoples but not mine. The best way to describe mine was an allergic reaction to mxe...i just never came down properly. Over the first week of hppd I was seeing patterns real thick snow. drdp, paranoia felt insanity. But this all improved. Overall im brtter bar fluctuations and trails. I often think of hppd as like a bungee chord, the damage starts when it begins to expand, and sorta keeps going for a bit, stablises then begins to wind back in. God knows.

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I think I have an idea about why HPPD seems to get worse on its own. Suppose you get HPPD and your brain is down regulating your receptors and is only producing 75% as many receptors as it did before. Right after your brain starts doing this, you still have the receptors that are left over from the time you didn't have HPPD. But as they wear down, only 75% of them are replaced due to down regulation. So once you first develop HPPD, you still have most of your receptors but they slowly decrease in number and stabilize at the rate at which they are being replaced (75% in this example).

I may be way off. One problem with this explanation is when HPPD is "triggered" in a matter of hours.

What you describe is exactly what happens to dopaminergic neurons with progressive degeneration - specifically Parkinson's disease. Over time, fewer synapsis are function and they must take higher loads. The higher loads cause more burnout and thus few synapsis ... the vicious cycle goes on. With PD, movement disorder begin to show after about 75% of function is lost - thats right, early PD is function only 1/4 then number of synapsis.

It is unclear how degenerative HPPD is. Certainly it is not like PD. But most often symptoms (or vulnerability) increase over several months. In spite this, many people get well over time. HPPD is a complex, multifacited beast.

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visual, i asked you a few month ago if you think people with HPPD are at a higher risk of developing parkinsonism. and i think that fits here again. i dont think so because HPPD is now known over 50 years and i dont think that all of these people developed parkinsonism.

also in parkinsonism there comes a point where it shows up on brain scans i dont believe that this is the case for HPPD.

i read alot posts of long timers who are saying their HPPD progressed over month up to a year but after this the most got alittle better.

this seems to be the case for HPPD not necessarely for PMA. in my opinion that is why with PMA you can still get migraine attacks and i think this is like someone with HPPD still doing drugs. that doesnt mean that PMA cant get into full remision but this seems to be very rare

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I am unaware of any connection between PD and HPPD. Or Parkinsonism. As for brain scans, only newer PET or fMRI that show metabolic activity show anything, since there isn't a bunch of dead neurons (plaques) unless you have Lewy's as well.

On important thing about PD and Parkinsonism, is that it is classified as a movement disorder. All the cognitive type stuff is ignored. In the end, only autopsy gives definate diagnosis.

I've used PD as a model for our symptoms because of what causes it, how it progresses, and that in advanced stages produces a few visual and cognitive symptoms that many here suffer. Other neurological diseases don't seem to be near so close in symptoms.

It was interesting to learn of COMT issues being related to HPPD. And again this is very different that PD.

I have parkinsons in my family does anyone else?

I have ET in family (men only). Also ALS. And other neurological crap. I suspect the ET is more parkinsons like but can't really check it out since everyone is dead except me and a couple brothers.

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Wow. I am still amazed that it can remain dormant for months and get triggered out of nowhere months or years later. My HPPD started out a week after my last trip when I was using adderall to study. It was very mild and barely noticeable. I've been sober too but its been getting worse for the past couple of months. I still consider my HPPD to be mild compared to everyone else but I have to live in fear of getting worse.

Yeah, I wish I could say for sure. The guy I was smoking with could have loaded anything in that bowl with the weed thinking he was being cool to me or something. I know he had been doing other things around that time, like 2ce and shrooms and stuff like that. So it makes me wonder. I mean it was an itnense head rush, with very illogical thinking patterns, and intense anxiety and paranoia like after 4 hits, and I just kept smoking. I guess, I just didnt want to look like a dill hole. And HPPD was the last of my thoughts on what was going on at the time. It stopped after an hour or two though.

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I've used PD as a model for our symptoms because of what causes it, how it progresses

But we don't know what causes HPPD and aren't the progressions of these two disorders very different? People don't get better from parkinsons, do they?

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But we don't know what causes HPPD and aren't the progressions of these two disorders very different? People don't get better from parkinsons, do they?

The similarity of progression is only with toxic induced Parkinsonism. Idiopathic Parkinson's Disease has an extremely predictable progression and isn't like what we have.

The earlier one starts treatment, the slower PD progresses. There are even cases where the disease doesn't seem to progress at all in 20 years ... but early is the most important thing.

Parkinsonism isn't progressive but the person is very vulnerable to more damage. Also, dopaminergic neurons are capable of repair ... it is just very slow. This seems similar to HPPD. And of course, dopamine is only 1 neurotransmitter involved in our problems.

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ferret---there are some similar symptoms w/ PD and HP----But the underlying cause of PD is loss/degradation of pigmented nuclei; and this is largely genetically determined. But things like HP and mental illness will (I believe) make you more prone the getting dementia and Alzheimer's in old age (---and maybe perhaps PD as well). If you have PD in your family, it is important to get better from HPPD and stay "sharp", keep your brain active doing brain exercises, puzzles, trivia, fine motor activities, and games for coordination. Just what i would think.....where early on in my HPPD i feared losing these pigmented nuclei and feared getting PD later down the line.....HPPD probably doesn't affect these nuclei though. Now i fear Alzheimer's 'cause that's in my family lol

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I have a big family, my mother has 8 siblings and my dad 3. Together i have like 50 cousins but we do not have a single neurological/psychiatric diseases. I looked it up when i got HPPD. The only thing is that a couple, as well as me have ADD though i do not consider it a disease since ADHD diagnosis is decided according how "normal" people work. In other societies, it would probably be the shaman that would be classed as ADHD-subject in the western world.

I feel pretty safe when it comes to genetic disorders, why i have the "HPPD-gen" is another issue.

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I have alzheimers, parkinsons, schitzophrenia, migraines, and anxiety in my family. Keeping my wits into my old age seems like a long shot, ecspeacially after HPPD.

Don't you just love genes ...

BTW, if you learn a second language, you significantly cut your risk of alzheimers. Also, circulatory and metabolic problems are the big 'markers' for alzheimers - so preventing heart disease, stroke, and diabetes are practical (and ultimately 'rewarding') steps to take.

I have a big family, my mother has 8 siblings and my dad 3. Together i have like 50 cousins but we do not have a single neurological/psychiatric diseases. I looked it up when i got HPPD. The only thing is that a couple, as well as me have ADD though i do not consider it a disease since ADHD diagnosis is decided according how "normal" people work. In other societies, it would probably be the shaman that would be classed as ADHD-subject in the western world.

I feel pretty safe when it comes to genetic disorders, why i have the "HPPD-gen" is another issue.

ADD and ADHD are dopamine "disorders". As for "normal", it is loosely defined. "Common" is a synonym, but just because something is common doesn't mean it is any good, lol.

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My family is pretty good gene wise. No shit like that, the men have had heart issues but bar depression my family are pretty solid...so they tell me. I do.t care about pd or that in 40 years time. I just want to live my youthful years without a haze of fucking snow around me

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I don't think mine is downregulation because if that were the case it wouldn't last for years. Also, if psychedelics are stimlulants; it would make more sense for the brain to up-regulate GABA in response to counteract the over-stimulation.

I think it's oxidative damage.

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Well Gill, since Visual came to the board and shared his story about HPPD induced by toxins i am ready to reevaluate your thoughts. It scared the shit out of me to talk about "damage" but now i feel more at peace with that thought. Not saying that is the only option ofcourse.

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