brendan Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 just wondering if younger brains are more susceptible to hppd or just whether younger people are more likely to take more drugs. I remember some years ago after a long drive i would close my eyes and images of the road would flash up. I just drove 9 hours at the weekend and still didnt get this again, suggesting my brain processes better. And the younger brain is more impressionable and hasnt set down its main pathways so strongly. Perhaps if i waited till now, aged 33, to take hallucinogens, i would not suffer hppd? So anyone out there get hppd after, say, 30 years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 i got it age 16 or 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay1 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 17 too.... warning signs from 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morbide Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Warning signs at 17 but it really hit me at 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchmandy Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 1 month before I turned 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepuinthesky Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 first symptoms with 20, "Full-blown" with 25. haha but i remember when i first got my nintendo 64 with maybe 12 i played the whole day super mario. when i was closing my eyes i still saw the lvl background and mario^^ but i heard that is normal as a child dunno or maybe i was predisposed at this age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkan Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Its impossible to make any conclusion about this since very few take their first psychedelics at an older age. Anyway, i was 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchmandy Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 first symptoms with 20, "Full-blown" with 25. haha but i remember when i first got my nintendo 64 with maybe 12 i played the whole day super mario. when i was closing my eyes i still saw the lvl background and mario^^ but i heard that is normal as a child dunno or maybe i was predisposed at this age. what caused " full blown hppd " did u continue drinking and drugging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepuinthesky Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 dunno what was the main cause but it was a combination of a lot of cannabis(didnt stoped after warinig signs smoked 20g/week), stress, alcohol (drunk a lot of liquor the day before), watching my eyesight(was in a pitch black room for 3 hours) and in combination with this all i took 2 full pills of antibiotic per day for a week. stoped psychodelics and other drugs with 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDude Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 45 (old fart ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepuinthesky Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 visual, may i ask what caused your HPPD? i am interested because our symptoms seems to be very similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 visual - as the only post 30 yr old onset hppder so far to reveal themselves you are quite unusual. Im with neptune in being interested in your story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs1234 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 i got it when i just turned 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaolinbomber Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludwig80 Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I was 19 .. Edit: Actually 18 now that I think about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmo Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I was 20, I'm 21 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDude Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 visual, may i ask what caused your HPPD? i am interested because our symptoms seems to be very similar visual - as the only post 30 yr old onset hppder so far to reveal themselves you are quite unusual. Im with neptune in being interested in your story. Encore, Encore... Yes, my story is weird in the extreme. To start with, because the 'extent' of neurological problems is more that just HPPD, the diagnosis was 'upgraded' (lol) to toxic encephalopathy. While bizarre, what happened is simple - a destructive reaction (allergy?) to a toxic building. As best as can be understood, a new carpet reacted chemically to a concrete floor. This created neurotoxins. About 10% of the people that used the building got sick and cannot enter it (mostly rashes, asthma/breathing problems, headaches/disorientation). Two people (including self) developed HPPD symptoms along with peripheral nerve issues. The other 90% of people have no real problems. This experience trashed the brains ability to process normal (and abnormal) toxins. So am VERY susceptible to further damage. As posted throughout, the main damage seems to be to dopaminergic areas. While this happened 5 years ago, 3 years ago more damage was caused ... just by living a normal life. To prevent further damage I have to stay away from most carpets, fabrics and petroleum fumes (particularly diesel). [ So it isn't as simple as 'just-say-no-to-drugs' ]. Both the 'sensitivity' and 'damage' are considered permanent. While I was recovering well from the initial session of injury, the second time has not been resilient, and seems to affect more than just the dopamergic areas. The case is freaky. Ironic that I've never tried recreational drugs in my life ... not even one joint. So I spend time trying to help others and to learn and try more things. Just reading what I must right here is depressing (and I'd be a liar if I said life is wonderful now that I've 'accepted' the problem). Simply stated, my life was largely ruined. But since I didn't die, the ultimate 'ruination', must continue to make a new life for self. However, many things are good. The wife didn't leave. I live in a nice area. And am able to continue to learn and adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepuinthesky Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 wow that sounds really strange in some way^^, because the most of my symptoms kicked in while i was renovating my house what doesnt mean iam connecting this two happenings but its a bit strange. but i think your case shows us that there are many diffrent ways to develop this symptoms. i read a story of somebody at the visualsnowforum who developed it after gettin de-frost spray(dunno if this is the right term) into his eyes. this let me think if maybe special chemicals are involved and maybe it isnt the drug itself maybe its the way the drug is laced? and we react in another way to this chemical. maybe this is why there are no native americans who say they are having HPPD because of the use of mescaline. dont think self collected peyote are laced^^ as we know the most chemical drugs are contaminated in some way. i can really understand that this is depressing because i allways told myself you have done this to your mind/body and i can handle this because my drug time was a great time. i know there are people who have problems because of the guilt question but for me it isnt. the other person you are talkin about having HPPD symptoms is he recovered or does he still have this? is the "damage" done to your brain detectable in some way? or is it like for the most here not showing up in any test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDude Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 The other person has not recovered - actually much worse off. The only test that confirm anything are neuro-congnitive tests specifically for brain injury. The main area shown is attention/focus - which is 'classic' for toxic damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 that is wierd. So you have sick building persisting perception defect? If you are not part of the drug world, how did you make the connection with/come across such a niche problem as hppd? Just googling? I have thought that my hppd was predisposed by some toxic condition as i had terrible brain fog before taking mushrooms which gave me hppd, and the fact that a detoxificant (nac) makes my fog go away. I would recommend it to you to as you clearly need a bit of toxin resilience, if you arent already taking it. So we still have no-one getting hppd from taking drugs post 30 yrs old, though we can't tell if this is just the drug demographic. It's difficult to draw conculsions about age-related hppd vulnerability and ppd from other toxins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepuinthesky Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 @brendan: mate look up the visualsnowforum there are a lot of people who develop these symptoms in older age. but the most people there are 16-26, too i think. also here is a member who developed it with over 50 if i remember correctly but after complications while/after surgery. @visual: so no detectable brain damage showing up on MRT or CT? do you think the damage happend to you is a form of chemical inbalance? Did you have a SPECT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 i dont think it's lacing chemicals causing hppd. Mine was caused by clean self-picked magic mushrooms, tho as i say i may have had a pre-existing toxic condition. Toxins may just make your brain less able to process stuff or more vulnerable to stresses so make you more likely to get hppd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDude Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Sick Building Persisting Perception Defect, lol how did you make the connection A while back saw the term HPPD and asked doctor about it but we both dismissed it at the time since drugs weren't involved. Chemicals, yes ... Drugs, no ... humm..... Last spring a member directed me here. Then say Dr A's website where he mentions HPPD can (though rarely) be from non drug causes. predisposed by some toxic condition Toxic load is additive. So what you suppose makes sense. I use NAC but do not notice any benefit, just know that it is useful Toxins may just make your brain less able to process stuff or more vulnerable to stresses so make you more likely to get hppd. Cellular activity normally makes intermediate metabolites (free radicals) which are toxic. The more activity, the more toxins. Stress increases activity. Then add 'industrilized' stuff that biological organisms can't process well. The perfect storm... so no detectable brain damage showing up on MRT or CT? Did you have a SPECT? Damage is 'diffuse' and mostly on synaptic and axonal levels. MRI and CATs only see lesions, shrinkage and focal damage. Haven't had a SPECT (insurance won't pay - and there isn't much need when clinical evidence is so clear) but it could show something - however, being diffuse would make it unlikely. Take Parkinson's as an example. A person totally crippled up with advanced PD will not show on MRI or CAT (unless Lewy Body disease - comorbid in 30% of cases). However, PET scans will show reduced activity in basil ganglia area. do you think the damage happend to you is a form of chemical inbalance? Not sure what you mean in this context. Now I have always been an anxious person and it is known that anxiety and depression increases chances of most neurological disease, including toxic encephalitis. Chronic stress is damaging to mind and body - a predisposition I would love to see if I have a "COMT polymorphism" - worth checking into for research purposes. (again this would be limited to insurance $$$) Specialist in "Environmental and Occupational Medicine" are familiar with this stuff. I was puzzled about 'allergy' that caused problem and asked about it. Was told they use the word 'sensitivity' because it isn't a true allergy, rather the brains immune system has been damaged and its ability to resolve toxic load is significantly reduced. So, in this context as well, chemical imbalance would apply in that the metabolic pathways can no longer work correctly. Often the term refers to too much or too little of certain neurotransmitters in areas. This applies but the term is an informal generalization. Now, here is a term that hits the mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchmandy Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 i feel real sympathy towards u man, sucks so bad. i respect u alot for not knocking those who have used drugs and so on though, i suppose no matter how we got it, wer all in the same boat. didnt know about a condition wer now all in some cases crippled by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDude Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 i feel real sympathy towards u man, sucks so bad. i respect u alot for not knocking those who have used drugs and so on though, i suppose no matter how we got it, wer all in the same boat. didnt know about a condition wer now all in some cases crippled by I must admit my curiosity about drugs has grown, lol. But I think I'll behave myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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